A complete UI overhaul of Rhino would be a much welcomed move

[cfee]

Except that the list of items presented

1. often doesn’t make it clear which items you’re cycling through (noted improvements mentioned above in RH-6 notwithstanding)

and

2. Often the one you wanted doesn’t even show up on the list.

USUALLY its some MYSTERY selection buried DEEP INSIDE the items as they appear on-screen.

Add to that. O-SNAP which seems to rely on similar approach, OFTEN selecting the filtered o-snap point on an adjacent item INSTEAD OF the one you’d intended, IGNORING that you have the view of the assembly as you need it right now while you’re working, not NECESSARILY in the order RHINO prefers to present it to you in the list/ NEWER doesn’t necessarily get you there either, as you’ve probably zoomed out rotated away from the part or detail you’ve just created or inserted.

No, I was very specific and to the point. This IS an actual “thing” no matter what those confused by how BASIC the ability to select the INTENDED item might be to the REST of us … ;=) !

As much as developers have resisted calls for something so fundamental, even dismissing requests with flippant replies like "well then change your zoom " . No, This is real, no matter how “confused” by requests some might want the rest of us to think they are.

Thanks -

C.

[cfee]

Hi !

Yeah, when you select overlapping sub-objects, RH will present you a list of possible choices that may or MAY NOT include the one you’d intended on their list. IF the one you want IS on the list AND it happens to be highlighted, just hit enter and it’ll get selected for the command you’re running .

If its on the list but NOT highlighted, just select AGAIN the one you’d intended by picking it AGAIN - this time in the list, and then move on.

However, OFTEN when RH “thinks” you must have CLEARLY preferred one selection item or another, it’ll bypass the list entirely, OFTEN BEING WRONG. This has resulted in broken assemblies and mis-aligned O-Snap-point-results, OFTEN not discovered until its WAY TOO LATE.

Oh well, at least when we request developer help on this and that it be added to ANOTHER long wish-list with ANOTHER intended release expected soon -2, 3, 5 or more years out … … … .

[cfee]

Nailed it. Well said .

[Ian]

I’ve read this whole thread. Seems that the UI thing discussed here is mainly about updating the look, specifically implementing the fashionable dark mode that is popping up everywhere now. Plus a cacophony of opinions over the 183 posts on a dozen other UI issues that may or may not be generally agreed on. But the main contention seems to be kids won’t buy anymore unless they see dark mode. Have I got it right?

On the other hand, if you look over in another part of this forum, at Serengeti, especially the Sub-D section https://discourse.mcneel.com/c/serengeti/sub-d, and look also at the Google Drive document SubD for Rhino 7, you would see that McNeel is opening up a whole new world that will extend Rhino way beyond its current capabilities. Personally I can hardly wait for this to fill out, and against this extra new capability, I hardly care about dark mode. I want the new tools.

So it would be interesting to straw poll this: should McNeel divert effort from Sub-D to fancy up the UI, or continue full steam on Sub-D, and do any big UI rebuild sometime later?

[Piotr]

It took me two days to go back to the light mode in Mac version. Dark mode is a gadget only. Monochromatic icons are hard to read for me on a high resolution screen. They look too similar which means every time I have to spend a split second more to target the right one. It affects my overall performance. Wasted effort IMO. (For the very same reason I don’t like Photoshop’s new UI.
I love the tiny things in RH6 I am discovering every day that makes my workflow efficient: snap to hatches, print display etc.
Stability, extended functionality, better render engine, faster graphic display are the things I am looking for in RH 7 and beyond.

[ec2638]

@Ian

Personally I can hardly wait for this to fill out, and against this extra new capability, I hardly care about dark mode. I want the new tools.

Tools vs Colors…Substance vs Fluff

Hmm, let me think about that a bit. OK done; give me tools, please.

That said, I’ve seen the uninitiated blank stare at Rhino, and if I could read their minds, the thoughts might be interpreted as - WTF… Conversely, if I’m attempting the same interpretation with uninitiated Fusion users, the glint in their eyes might be interpreted as - oooh, shinny colors…

In an Instagram 2-second world, such is a quandary. If a relatively simplistic dark mode implementation placates percentages and contributes to growth of the tribe, it’s a good thing too.

[skysurfer]

if redoing the interface means swapping to dark theme… NO THANKS.
but a general review of the interface structure should be done to increase the productivity.

did you see what they did with VrayforRhino?
they categorized the options and created a more effective hierarchical interface that helps everybody to be more productive.

I’ve to say that v6 improved a lot by adding all the side panel options but I still have problem in selecting the match Crv or distinguish Blensrf and Matchsrf (I’m using this tool on everyday basis since 2005)

half of the edit tool are repeated for crv and srf but the endbulge is now only on srf panel (while working on crvs as well.)

and so on…

[Rhino_Bulgaria (Bobi)]

“or distinguish Blensrf and Matchsrf”

For this reason I LOVE the ability to import or even draw your own custom icons in Rhino!

[cfee]

I agree.

[cfee]

I use a mix of established Shortcuts, custom “Aliases” and ICONS.

Icons allow me to group similar operations into a toolbar - according to what I want CONVENIENT in THAT operation, not NECESSARILY what command is similar. I THEN arrange them in callable “Pop-Ups”.

Another thing that helps is that if I’m working with a particular kind of component or operation, I might want a series of commands and operations collected together on a toolbar, and having the SUITE of available ICONS handy ON-SCREEN allows me to think for a moment “What would I LIKE to have convenient for THIS operation?” and pull THAT ICON into the working TOOLBAR. Can’t “Collect operations” like this if there’s nothing to collect, or that “collecting” is made too inconvenient by turning off the Toolbars because Icons aren’t “cool” …

Along a similar line might be a pop-up box when an object or similar object/s is/are selected, that has some pertinent Object Properties and a FEW of the most pertinent commands for the Selection set. Such a box could allow - within reasonable limits - adding a function, command or setting the user might discover appropriate.

Another point on my personal list of favorites, is that if you ONLY type shortcuts YOU have decided are “favorites” you tend to develop ever-narrowing “Workflow Processes”. Uhhmmm… yes, YOU (reader) DO . I have been REPEATEDLY challenged on this, and in 40 years of CAD Design, I have NEVER - not ONCE - lost this bet. Its really nothing more than once they prove how “FAST” they are because they are “The smartest CAD-Guy ( ;=) ! ) in the room” , I can EASILY - THEN ask - did you know you could do THIS too ?" And proceed to show them a couple of things they either DIDN’T already know, or hadn’t figured into their own workflow ! Sorry I went long, but won’t apologize for how simply obvious this is. Been doing CAD Design for 40 years - you won’t convince me I haven’t been doing it long enough to be as smart as anyone nearby. Smartest ? Almost CERTAINLY not . FASTEST ? Well, someone else might be able to throw off a series of commands more quickly, but when I show YOUR Engineering and Manufacturing Management how to turn 10, 15+ or MORE “Revision Cycles” into 1 or two, not sure “Command Spray” is NECESSARILY equal to “Fastest”.

Finally, in terms of Icon “Colors” I am MOST frustrated in this area, when I see a whole WASH of closely grouped Icons ALL the SAME color base. EVERY SINGLE ICON in the MODELING and EDITING areas, and ALLOT of others as well, is a color shade of BLUE. ALL of them. Uhhmmm… LOOK AGAIN.

AND if you need pointed out a seemingly OBVIOUS speed-bump in THIS developer color selection process, WHITE thin curves on ALMOST-white-“Grey” backgrounds in such TINY Icon boxes ? SERIOUSLY ;=) !?! -OR- BLACK thin lines on a TINY DARK-GREY Icon background on a DARK UI ?!?

EVERYONE on any given day is ONLY where THEY are, in terms of experience and ability. “Backwards Compatibility” is CRUCIAL, whether someone young enough not to know better, realizes it or not. IF the person BENEFITS from ICONS - let them have ICONS - even If Icons don’t make it possible for someone (developers) to streamline the UI to meet theirs or someone else’s personal preference.

THIS approach can leave programming resources for the efforts involved in actually IMPROVING the PRODUCT and its OPERATIONS, requiring less emphasis on a snazzy UI re-colored (Dark OR Light - allow the option … ) to "attract new users " :=/ .

All the best - C.

[cfee]

Skysurfer -
Indeed. Well put and ABSOLUTELY on-point. Thanks - C .

[timglobal (Tim)]

всич… ВСИЧ!

[jari1 (Jari)]

I´ve just passed 20years on using rhino, and not suprisingly I really like the interface.

Autodesk has made many iterations on Autocad in the same span of time, and I still set it up as much like the old one as possible. But I can´t cause they´ve made too much changes. Same goes with Photoshop, had to adapt to changes.

The best part of Rhino is you can set it up as you like. Some people like to use lot of icons and toolbars, some people like drop downs, some like me who learnt on 768px screens use the command line. I´m all in for new features and themes for new people, but I will never use them unless forced.

As for priorities, I still use rh5 cause t-splines, so I´d rather see the SubD ready so I could swap to rh6.

[Rhino_Bulgaria (Bobi)]

“всич” comes from “всички”, which in Bulgarian language means “all”. I use this icon for the command “Select all”. For that very reason I also replaced: “hide” with “скрий”, “cut” with “клъц”, the icon for the “Select by colour” with “цвят” (meaning “colour” in Bulgarian), the icon for “Invert selection” with “обр” (“обратно” means “invert”), the icon for “Hide objects” with “скрий”, and the icon for “Select none” with “нищо”.
I also improved some of the default Rhino icons to give them a more distinguished look that increase the speed of figuring out where they are located on the toolbar. One of these is the “MovenUVN” icon that I uploaded in my previous post. I added extra “UVN” letters to it at the upper left corner.
It’s so nice that everybody could customize the toolbars according to their liking.

[timglobal (Tim)]

Oh, gotcha, I just use the native icons for that, the selection tab is so damn useful, I always dock it next to the properties pane, it became sort of a tradition for me. The next step would be giving them custom aliases, undock the tab and free up extra 10-20 pixels and become a true Rhino wizard , but I’m a tad hesitant about it since they are many and I’m one and some of them I use only in unique situations and would tend to forget the alias I gave them.

[Rhino_Bulgaria (Bobi)]

There is enough space even on screens with 1080p resolution to keep at least 12 of these icons under the left vertical toolbar.

[timglobal (Tim)]

True, but I’ve got other stuff there

[AlanMattano (Soaring Stars lab)]

I think that Unity is the best UI example that I can imagine and my wish for Rhino. Because is super flexible (resizing and drag and drop), use components that you can populate, is super versatile (you can program it), do not change in that much alog time (only improve) and do not lose space (you can feel the gaps if you wish).

About a defoult Dak Sking Template, here is my feedback: [FEEDBACK] Rhino Dark Skin

[andrew.nowicki]

@cfee

change the color inside each command ICON to color-grouping by general function instead of ALL “Blue” as in RH-5 & 6, current image ok, just color-base for the ICON - ALL BLUE ?

@Andrew_Nowicki

Rhino icons are miniature pictures of objects. It seems that colors of the objects are random. About two years ago I proposed a few rules: points are red, lines are green, surfaces are blue, isocurves are yellow, meshes are magenta, imaginary lines are cyan, solid edges and text are black, background is white. Original objects have light colors. Final objects have dark colors.

We can combine these ideas. For example: we divide all commands into six groups. Commands which make new objects have white background. Commands which change objects have light-grey background. Commands which provide information have background gradient: top = white, bottom = light-grey. Commands which change options or defaults have opposite background gradient: top = light-grey, bottom = white. Commands which export or import data have opposite horizontal background gradients.

[cfee]

Andrew - I think this might work !

Very good feedback, bud - THANKS !

-C.