UV Indicators

mic_drop

5 Likes

IMHO you way overestimate the potential for increase in speed, with that, quite the opposite, as I already mentioned, for having your hand off of the keyboard for hotkey use. If you don’t you hotkeys, THAT is the serious time saver, you can take that to the bank. Right or middle clicking of the mouse does basically the same thing.

In my nearly 25 years of being a 3D CAD design engineer at “serious engineering companies”, whether for military or spacecraft components, both of which I’ve designed extensively, I have worked with many serious engineers, and seriously 1 person ever used one long term that I worked with, and that person was seriously not outstanding above any of my other associates throughout my career, more the opposite.

Just because you know one guy who used a 3d mouse in the past who is not too good at doing 3d modeling, does not mean anything. :slight_smile: I know multiple certified engineers and designers, including ones who use Alias as their primary tool. Well, about a decade ago in the free time at work we used to make some quick “competition” between us just for fun, such like modeling a car fender or a car door. I used Rhino 3 or 4, while they used Alias (which, you know, has way superior surfacing tools). None of my co-workers was able to achieve better surface quality than me, even though they used more advanced CAD program made specifically for car design. That’s because having a diploma or using an advanced software does not guarantee a superior end result. It’s all about the modeling strategy and clever tricks used to achieve the design intent. An experienced long-time Alias designer would do it better than my models in Rhino, but those guys were not top designers. They just used to work on a better software and had better education than me (at least on paper). So, I don’t agree with your argument and the example with that single CAD co-worker you mentioned. :slight_smile:

Military and aircraft components are often created via basic lines, arcs and 3d primitives as input geometry to build the models. I use exactly the opposite approach. I work mainly in the automotive design field where the requirement is G2 continuity, plus some chassis and suspension engineering. In the past I also did a wide range of product design of any type (toys, furniture, TV stands, board game pieces, a scull, etc) with complex bio-design shape that required extensive use of free-form surfaces and all the tools required to achieve them, such like: manual point editing, multiple iterations of matching between surfaces, blend surfaces etc. The majority of those tools benefit A LOT from using a 3d mouse, because the latter let me precisely examine the shape of the surfaces in a very convenient and quick way (thanks to the simultaneous move, rotate and pan of the camera, with variable speed to each of them that I can control at any time). In a previous post I already explained the many advantages related to the 3d mouse, including the ability to retain the full control over the viewport camera even if I do something else with the regular mouse on a pop-up window inside Rhino.

lolk I think I sprained an eyeball rolling them.

As I said, I tried one and it slowed me down significantly compared to my hotkey-heavy workflows.

So it’s the spacemouse, not your super awesome talents that made you so much awesomer at modeling than anyone, and only your industry requires modeling skills. Got it!

As I mentioned previously, the learning curve for mastering the 3d mouse is short and just needs patience. When I first tried my SpacePilot, it was very difficult for me to use it even at the slower speeds, which means that it slowed me down while trying to manipulate the view in Rhino with the 3d cap initially (just like you). :slight_smile: I considered it a bad purchase and thought that I will most likely re-sell it to somebody else. However, shortly after I tried it again and spent an entire day playing with the viewport camera in Rhino. Several days later I learned how to use the 3d mouse naturally, and day after day I raised the speed setting from the sliders, because less movement means more relief for the left hand. Currently my SpacePilot’s sensitivity is at the maximum 5th speed (a setting done in Rhino) + two extra levels beyond the maximum (they are accessible by pressing the + and - buttons on the device itself and can’t be reached by the software). On top of that, most of the sliders for the individual axis are also set at the maximum speed. The 3d cap is so sensitive now that if I push my table slightly, the viewport camera in Rhino moves. That very strong sensitivity lets me control the viewport camera with the slightest possible movements of my hand, so it’s really comfortable to use it with gentle touches. I usually move it or tilt it no more than 0,5-1 mm in any direction.

It’s worth mentioning that I use my custom speed settings for each individual axis, because the default equal values felt a bit off to me (the tilt was too fast to my linking). Pictured below are my settings. It says “Rhino 5”, because SpacePilot is a discontinued device that’s not supported after Rhino 6.4 and newer releases, but I replaced the 3d mouse plug-in of Rhino 7 with an older version from Rhino 6.3, so it does its magic and works wonderfully with Rhino 7. :slight_smile:

Does it have a macro for paragraph breaks? You win, I’m out.

I really don’t care if the indications of uv directions happens by colours, labels or other means.
The important point to me is, that the same moniker is used on screen, in command names and icons and, very important, within command menus and interfaces.
If McNeel prefers colour coding, than all icons that refer to UV should use exactly theese colours and in uv sensitive commands the UI should be colour coded so that I don’t have to “translate” colour into letter.
(this has been requested for the “rebuild” dialogue box for example, but should be applied to all commands that refer to uv coordinates).
Call those coordinates what you want, it really doesn’t matter all that much to me.
I want to be able to immediately and consistently identify the different directions without having to think about it.

2 Likes

What he said. UVN is another direction sensitive one which I’ve posted about before. I noted to @pascal in a past topic how minutely small the current arrows would be within this command. Then to boot, they’d be faint AND I’d then have to translate the direction.

Maybe the feeling is, red and green is decluttered and cleaner, better for beginners maybe so it looks less scary. That’s why I’d just maintain again and again that I don’t care if it has to go down 10 menus deep for it to be possible. So if it’s something you want to be able to do, you can search for it and find it’s possible.

To illustrate my point, here are my custom icons for “SelU”, “SelV” and similar commnds:

Screenshot 2021-01-14 120704

1 Like

A nice idea too. In some ways makes more sense and almost puts me on the fence. Maybe it could be as subtle as a colour hint on the slider, or arrows, for instance then in menus.

image

Can :green_circle: and :red_circle: be displayed on the eto forms? :sweat_smile:

Those updated icons of yours @norbert_geelen should be implemented immediately as default. Literally nothing to lose, all to gain.

uvn-colour

I really don’t see the downside to something like this.

2 Likes

Definitely. Even just the arrow nub. Funny how the icon even has this info.

Obviously it leaves things such as RebuildUV et. al still to be addressed or looked at in some way.

Ha-ha, as a colour blind person I see nearly the same colour for both circles. :smiley: When I checked them in Paint.NET with the RGB colour picker, the program clearly says that they are green and red.

Why would “McNeel” need to spend a lot of time to alter virtually every menu and icons that involve isocurve direction and point editing, when a simple addition of “U” and “V” letters next to two of the surface edges could do the job properly? :slight_smile: Not to mention that it will also suit colour blind people.

5 Likes

I agree. Let’s hope to see something implemented.

1 Like

I think the best thing would to implement primary colour coding (less likely to be problematic for the colour blind) with (equally colour coded) small labels on the middle of isoparms or edges.

Black is universal for letters (forums and real paper are no exception), easy to the eyes and works perfectly on nearly all background colours except the very dark ones. :slight_smile: The lines and default surface outlines and isocurves in Rhino are also black for a reason.

The most elegant way of showing direction of the isocurves is gradually changing their brightness (luma) along their length.

The human eye could be easily tricked that way, because it has the tendency to get tricked about the brightness of objects depending of the brightness of the surrounding objects. We constantly adjust our vision depending on the strength (brightness) of the incoming light, so the same colour could look different depending on the environment. Did you know that brown is actually darker orange? :slight_smile:

Here is a very clever example for an optical illusion that proves how tricky could be for the human eye to properly perceive the brightness of objects. The squares “A” and “B” are actually of the same colour (RGB code: 112, 112, 112), but because we adjust the brightness when focusing on an object based on the nearby brightness, we see “A” as a much darker colour than “B”.
This is why many young people in Nordic countries like to wear very bright clothes as an optical illusion. A white T-shirt allows their skin to look darker than its actual shading. If they wear darker clothes, their skin immediately looks like it’s too bright.

Rhino models in most view modes have a gradual shading that will affect how we perceive the (also) gradual isocurves. Imagine a gradually brighter isocurve along gradually brightly shaded curved surface. Depending on the point of view, they would look like following each other’s brightness.
Also, if there is a coloured lighting somewhere in the scene (often used in product design and architectural projects), it will affect our perception of an eventual gradient or coloured isocurve on a lit shaded surface, because of the optical illusion.

Rhino modelers need a robust solution for the isocurve “U” and “V” direction, in order to immediately tell the difference and avoid spending too much time into trying to figure out what’s going on there. This is why plaint black “U” and “V” symbols next to the surface edge are the undisputed winner. The same symbols are also used on many icons and pop-up windows for a reason. Our brain distinguishes well known symbols better than colours (especially gradients).

A nice video about the orange/brown topic:

1 Like

I recognize these kinds of discussions

Personally, I don’t even need color, I could go with this, but I think the point of all of these threads is that we need something!

bild

4 Likes

I agree. A big dot or a small circle in the UV origin would do the job.