UNDER 225 Watts power draw: graphic card recommendations …?

I HAVE several 2012 Mac Pros that can still accommodate and use modern graphics cards … if the OS installed is Linux or Windows.

Can anyone suggest a full-size card to render images exported from Rhino to either Blender or Cinema 4D or similar, please?

Without going to the extreme of hacking the power supply (Pixlas Mod), the upper limit for power draw is 225 watts. It’s an engineering requirement which may as well also serve as a running-cost limit.

It should probably be an nVIDIA card. I’d be interested to know if anyone has experience in rendering with one of their various GeForce RTX series. But which to choose?!

Hi Clive,

If you go to the pcpartpicker.com website and look under products, you can search a database of video cards against many criteria including chipset, interface and tdp. It looks like an RTX 5060 Ti is the most powerful Nvidia card you can get that is under 225W. That card also has the most memory (16GB). Whether the interface matches a 2012 Mac I suspect will be the big issue (if not price!). I know nothing about Macs so I can’t help you with that one, I’m afraid.

HTH
Jeremy

Hello Jeremy,

Thank you. Your link is going to be helpful, especially as it includes a column for “length” and which can be sorted as well. ChatGPT claims the maximum available length in the 2010-12 Mac Pros is 280 to 290mm which rules out several of the longest cards. And I’ve just noticed the useful sliders for in the left panel for other criteria. I have several Mac Pros and intend to install Linux or Windows or dual-boots on two or three of them.

Two months ago, I had to buy a new graphics card and encountered the same problem as you. I was still using my old PC, built seven years ago. Faced with inflation and shortages, I turned to “Pro” cards for the first time. Admittedly, they are more expensive and slightly less powerful than consumer models, but they have the advantage of having been less affected by inflation and still being available. Another advantage: their power consumption is extremely low compared to consumer cards, and their dimensions are also much more compact.

After extensive research, I opted for an RTX 5000 Blackwell Pro. It’s quite expensive, but probably offers the best VRAM/performance/price ratio from NVIDIA. Among consumer cards, only the RTX 5070 Ti 16GB could have replaced my old GTX 1080 Ti without seeming outdated.

Furthermore, if you find a used GTX 1080 Ti, buy it without hesitation. This card was simply overkill for its time, and I only replaced it because Nvidia stopped driver updates for these cards (which shouldn’t be a problem under Linux), and because I needed more VRAM. However, if you want to use ray tracing, this isn’t the card for you.

THE PC part picker (recommended above by Jeremy) is well-designed and enables comparisons among myriad specifications, quickly.

What is good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander, because one man’s meat can be another man’s poison!

The BlackWell Pro may well have a good VRAM to Watt ratio. If you mean Nvidia’s Quadro RTX 5000 then at 267mm, it would fit my Mac. However, the TDP is 265 watts, about a third more than the Mac Pro can take safely, without the Pixlas Mod.

At a minimum length of 288mm, the RTX 5070 Ti 16GB is unlikely to fit my machine. Many variants of the GTX 1080 Ti would fit my Macs, but drawing 250 watts would be likely to fry the traces on my motherboard!

I don’t rule out the Pixlas Mod, but for the time being, I intend driving to the speed limit, with the most comfortable car I can find!
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A 1080Ti, the best video card ever made, would be the best bet for an old system.

I would say the effort you are putting into trying to keep 2012 systems in service, however, is a waste of time. That’s about what I have set up for one of the kids to play Roblox, not to do work.

Hi Clive,

I believe Mac Pros of that era had PCIe gen 2 slots. Today’s cards like the RTX 5060Ti are designed for gen 5 slots in which the lanes are, if I recall correctly, 8 times faster.

PCIe is backward compatible so modern cards should run in your old Macs, but but don’t expect to get the advertised performance out of them.

I haven’t seen anyone benchmark a gen 5 card in a gen 2 slot so you might want to see if you can borrow one from a friend to try in your Mac so you can better assess performance before lashing out on expensive new cards.

Regards
Jeremy

A 1080Ti, the best video card ever made, would be the best bet for an old system.

Jim, this model may have been ideal for your purposes, but I’m not convinced that no better video card was ever made. And largely because what is best depends on a range of other factors.

The recommendation of a 1080 Ti also disregards any limitations of an older system, such as the physical space available and the maximum safe power draw, which was the main subject of my post.

I’m the best judge of how I spend my time!

The 2012 Mac Pros were workstation-class and—apart from the 2019 model—were the most modular and upgradeable machines Apple ever made. Available 2nd hand for little money.

I had six of them briefly in 2018. Of course it’s the best one ever. It’s the only one that actually has any kind of “legendary” reputation, for a reason. It came out in 2017 and is still perfectly cromulent. And it would just fit in your power budget. If it doesn’t physically fit, well that’s another reason why your project is folly, there is literally nothing you can get that would fit and is even half as capable.

If you can tolerate used, the 4070 Super is a belting card. If I had to pick the top 3 Nvidia cards, then it would be

  • 1080 Ti, by far
  • 4070 Super
  • 4090 (maybe the “next 1080 Ti”, partly for the wrong reasons).

Of my 4070S and 4090, nearly all of my rendering happens only on thr 4070S, as it is so impressive.

GTX 1080Ti TDP is 250W

people are asking more for these secondhand on ebay than you’d pay for a new RTX 5060 Ti…

I have no particular idea about this setup, but one could always use MSI Afterburner, if it goes into this configuration of Mac and Windows?.

My cards are power limited to 90%.

Edit: Ha! I didn’t notice the demand for Ada series cards commanded such a cost! Perhaps it demonstrates the overall poor reception of Blackwell.

Edit Edit: Ah, okay. It is because the 4070 Super is still higher performance than a 5060 Ti. The Ti has the 16 GB VRAM party trick. But the 12 GB on the 4070S is nothing to snub.

Oh! I made a mistake, I have a 4500 (and not a 5000), the TDP is 200W and the length is also 267mm.

However, beware of the Pro version, the power plug is sometimes located at the back of the card.

I got tricked, the dimensions on paper fit in the case, but I had to cut the front panel to pass the cable.

As Jeremy indicates, The PCIe port are backward compatible. However you must well distinguish the transfer speed between your RAM and the VRAM and the work of the GPU with its VRAM. My RTX 4500 PCIe 5 is mount on my old PC with a PCIe 4 port.

The data that are transferred between the RAM and the VRAM cannot go faster than the PCI 4 port allows it (even if the card would accept a faster transfer speed). Once the data in in the VRAM, the GPU is absolutely not limited by the PCIe port. It runs like on a PCIe 5 card. the PCIe was the standard of the physical connector on the motherboard, the limitation only applies to the RAM/VRAM transfer speed. In the case of Rhino which sends a lot of update to the VRAM, I exploit the RTX 4500 as fast as I exploited the GTX 1080Ti. But for a games for example, once load, the speed will be that of an unbridled card.

I confirm what Jim say, even if it is daring to say that a card is THE best of all, the RTX 1080Ti remains a histirical anomaly. over-dimentioned for its time, a bus size of 352 bit, even the 5080, cannot read/write as much VRAM data at the same time by CUDA cores. It’s only because I had very specific need that I had to change it.

About the 250 watts, you have to know three things, this consumption is not the one when you turn on the PC, at rest or to browse the internet and even to display Rhino model, the card does not consume that much. If on the other hand you do a Cycle render, that you play a games or do AI on your machine, there yes, the card can ask up to 250 watts to its power supply.

The second thing (but I confirm nothing, because I never did it myself) is that overclocable card have not for obligation to be overclocked upwards. If you have access to the frequency of the card you can also reduce it, and it seems to me having read that some card also allow to throttle the consumption (the Watts).

In case, I prefer to clarify, if a power supply is deliver to deliver 100W, one could be led to think that even if an equiment asks for 150W, the power supply not being able to deliver more and that the hardware will be throttle. I therefore invite you to be wary of this kind of talk. Some power supply have safeties, apple tends to put good hardware but I wouldn’t count on it despite everything.

Hello! So you confirm that it is possible to limit power consumption?

This is only on Windows, mind. But sure, on any modern, standard system, MSI Afterburner has a slider for it.

I always had mine limited, owing to Nvidias excellent use of 12VHPWR connectors, that had some record of burning. I could never warranty my card now, as MSI I doubt could even supply an RTX 4090 under warranty. :smile:

David, I can tolerate used!

My fleet of big & heavy (18kg) 2012 Mac Pros were all used.

I’m looking hard at the recent (200 watt) nVIDIA RTX 4070 (12 Gb) new or used, which may be the most powerful card I can use safely in my setup.

However, I have recently learnt about Power limiting (below) which may be better than Voltage Limiting ~

A recent Gemini response:

Power-limiting would seem to offer the prospect (?) of using a card with a TGP at my limit of 225 watts or even slightly above, and capping it at say, 180 watts.

I wonder if anyone else has had experience of power limiting on any card on any set-up?
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search for the -pl (–power-limit) option
https://docs.nvidia.com/deploy/nvidia-smi/

Many thanks for your detailed comments.

I have always assumed that the PCIe port (2.0) would be the bottleneck between

(a) fast modern cards; and

(b) the considerable ability in system power & memory that sits on the Tray (via the motherboard).

So I do hope you’re right about, once the data is in the VRAM!

Although the over-engineered 2010 and 2012 Mac Pros have remarkable upgrade ability and are now available at a small fraction of their original cost, they do have one significant disadvantage. Their 980 watt transformer is still handy (and makes a Pixlas Mod possible), but a tray with twin Xeon X5690 do use a lot of electricity. Hence my sensitivity to power use!

(I will use my fleet for rendering from Rhino or from Rhino exports that may well mean Cycle renders. I won’t use them for AI, mining or gaming.)
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Only RAM/VRAM transfers are affected. (The limitation therefore depends on the implementation of each application/game.)

I can guarantee it: I used ComfyUI with my GTX 1080 Ti and now with my 4500, and what used to take 30 seconds now only takes 4 seconds.