Text Scaling in Visual ARQ: Can we make it easier in V3?

[keithscadservices]

I’m revisiting a topic from a while back. I’ve only had time to post it now. The issue is with text scaling.

Things tend to get out of sync. The first picture compares basic Rhino text to VARQ’s section text:

Basically, what is happening is that when the “model space scale” changes the text in (most) VARQ follows along. This is mostly an unwanted feature because objects (such as the section mark symbols) DON’T scale. The objects and the text are out of sync.
Creating a VARQ style requires you to basically create your own text style for each and every style of each and every object:

And worse yet, things can easily get out of sync. When you update a vaPlanView you don’t necessarily want the text to change. And any Rhino text won’t scale. This makes things incredibly hard to manage.

I previous suggestion was to simply not use the “Model Space Scale” feature:

This doesn’t fix all the issues mentioned above and creates a new issue: We’ve now quadrupled the time it takes to create just a basic template (without yet even considering VARQ Objects).

The bigger issue arises when one realizes that they need to now create every type of VARQ object for every possible scale they might use. If something changes you have to go and change every single object; every single attribute one-by-one. It’s impossible. Using the stairs as an example: If you want the riser text to be correct you have to create a different stair style for each scale… for each style of stairs… There’s no point in having the user specify the text when the program just changes the text height on the user (which is not in line with the host program’s behavior).

One more thing I’ll tack on is the outlined objects appearing on vaPlanViews:

The only way to deal with this is to place your sections on a “no plot” layer and place “dummy” objects over top of them. This is actually manageable but just one more thing…

CAD standards from way (way) back in the day would require a different “style” of each object for each individual scale. Rhino makes this easier by allowing the user to simply adjust the “model space scale” and not have to edit each individual option one-by-one. This works just fine in my opinion: Slightly more work than ACAD’s annotative objects but less variables to have to worry about. 20+ years ago, drafting was much simpler, so the tedious task of creating styles for your text, dimensions, leaders, etc… was horrible but achievable. Asking users to take a step back… 30 years… there has to be a better way.

[enric (Enric Marquès)]

Hi @keithscadservices,

I’m sorry but I don’t understand the problem: Do you think VisualARQ annotations shouldn’t take into account “model space scale”? Because that was an old error in VisualARQ that we fixed some versions ago. Many users complained that VisualARQ texts and Rhino texts, when using the same annotation style, should behave equally.

We don’t support layout scaling yet, that’s something we plan to add in VisualARQ 3. But I thought model space scaling was working fine. Do you have a simple 3DM that clearly shows your issues? If there is anything that I can do to fix/improve any of these issues in VisualARQ 3 (or even 2.x) I will.

Enric

[keithscadservices]

Here’s a related topic from the past that might help:

Stairs text - visualarq

Hello, how to resize the text of the staircase [image] [image]

@enric

Do you think VisualARQ annotations shouldn’t take into account “model space scale”?

If the annotations take into account the model space scale, then shouldn’t the annotation symbol grow with the annotation scale? Here’s what I mean:

I’ve created 3 annotation styles whose names are representative of their model space scales:

I’ve also created a section style:

Note what happens when I change the scale and use “vaUpdate”, or simply move the section:

Avoiding vaUpdate’ing the object, or not moving it, aren’t really solutions.

@enric

Many users complained that VisualARQ texts and Rhino texts, when using the same annotation style, should behave equally.

They kind of don’t though? Rhino’s text is controlled by it’s respective style where as the text within the section is changing size dynamically.

The issue is that you seem to have gone in two different directions: The annotation symbols remain the same size while the text increases. Additionally, if we are to specify a text size/height within the object itself, why is it controlled by a text style otherwise independent of the object (I’d rather choose an existing text style rather than have to specify my font and text height for every style).

Anyone creating a template for Visual ARQ has to create annotation styles for each scale they anticipate using (I made a C# script for this but it was a lot of work and requires a concise naming convention. It’s not a huge problem but such practices are similar to how things were done in the 90’s.

So here’s the big dilemma:

This means that we have to create vaObjects, each type of object, for each individual scale we anticipate using it on. Not just sections but section views, plan views, tags (most likely). The amount of work required is far more than most other modern programs. And for those that require lots of setup, they at least provide a better starting point (that was my intent with the template I was creating).

I get that certain things can’t be changed due to the risk of affecting existing projects, but VA3 might provide an opportunity for a fresh start on a few things.

[alfmelbev (Alfonso Melero Beviá)]

Hi @keithscadservices,

@keithscadservices

Note what happens when I change the scale and use “vaUpdate”, or simply move the section:

Please, could you send me this sample file so that I can check your settings? According to my last tests it is going syncronized, but I could be using different settings. I guess by “scale” you mean the “model space scale” here.

@keithscadservices

Rhino’s text is controlled by it’s respective style where as the text within the section is changing size dynamically

VisualARQ text is linked to the Dimension Style you choose. You can change size from the Section style or link it to the Dimension Style.

@keithscadservices

The annotation symbols remain the same size while the text increases

Yes, maybe they should be linked. I’ll think about this.

@keithscadservices

Additionally, if we are to specify a text size/height within the object itself, why is it controlled by a text style otherwise independent of the object (I’d rather choose an existing text style rather than have to specify my font and text height for every style).

You can see in the screenshot above how you can avoid defining size and font for each object.

[keithscadservices]

Thanks Alfonso. With those settings, the text won’t change size with the style. At least things are stable that way.

I was going to ask why it’s called “dimension style” and not “Annotation Style”, but then I remembered that in RhinoCommon it’s actually a DimensionStyle if I remember correctly?

This solves 50% of the problem. And from there I can probably make a script, similar to what I did with the dimension styles, that automatically generates the new style for each scale. That would take care of the
In AutoCAD, I’ve also created a script that changes all my styles whenever I change one of them (but I only need it when using non-annotative styles).

[fsalla (Francesc Salla)]

@keithscadservices

One more thing I’ll tack on is the outlined objects appearing on vaPlanViews:

@keithscadservices I’m glad to inform you we have fixed this issue in VisualARQ 3.3. Now, texts that are not occluded by other objects are generated as texts inside plan and section views. You can download the 3.3 update here: Update - VisualARQ

[keithscadservices]

That doesn’t sound like the actual main issue There was a lot going on and it was two years ago. Perhaps it’s better just to let this post sink and start fresh?

[fsalla (Francesc Salla)]

Since this issue was posted here, even though it’s old, I found it convenient to notify about it here as well. But sure we can discuss other issues or requests in new posts!