Surfaces in blocks print differently than on their own?

[JoergH]

Hi Brian,

I know that many bugs reported are either not really critical, or a simple workaround can be found, or it’s a video card problem or something like that. But there are also still some more critical issues
As you said yourself: there are still many bugs reported. Like this one.from Holo. PDF draw order bug still O.k. we maybe found a workaround.

I’m just saying, that I think it is wrong to say we are at R15, we completely stop repairing bugs, and let the people wait for V7 to be released. If something is affecting pdf communication or data exchange it needs a bit higher priority I believe.
Otherwise Rhino can get a reputation of not beiing suitable for “real” production. That could hurt Mc Neel as a company as well as many users that are producing data for production.

[Asterisk]

@brian

One of the criteria for a V6 bug fix is if it’s a regression from Rhino 5.

I know you’ve posted some of the problems here on Discourse - do you happen to know what the YouTrack links for them are? I see RH-52539 - what are the others?

I can’t promise that we’ll fix anything - sometimes the fixes are too difficult or require too many changes to warrant being done in a service release. To continue with your metaphor, it’d be like blowing your head gasket in order to fix your oil leak. It’s just not worth it - even if the oil leak is annoying.

Every bug I’ve reported here is a regression from R5. Every single thing is working in R5 as intended and not in R6. I’m only going to post these 3 that are critical to our workflows:

Obviously this one RH-52539 as we’re branching into using blocks more and more. Including 3D geometry.
This RH-52277 is just a productivity & habit issue. It feels wrong to force 26 people here relearn to use Ctrl+“other than V” to paste and move.
And this one has been logged and I guess deleted? RH-52583

Leader horizontal justification is broken

[image] [image] What happened to auto justification to the landing??

Thank you for considering!

I completely gave up on text masking. There’s too many issues with it in R6 and non existent command/method support.

@brian

Rhino 7 WIP licenses are Rhino 6 licenses. You can use both, at the same time, on your computer - using the license you already have.

The issue here is - we don’t want to come to work one day and R7 WIP license is expired and we have to scramble to either make things work for buggy R6 or shell out for TWENTY SIX seats of R7 just to fix the bugs. If you’re saying that we can use R7 WIP 'till the end of days, this talk shouldn’t even be happening and I should be installing 26 seats of R7 WIP right now.

The gray items in R6 pic are blocks.
Note the text in detail marker is jacked up (justification broken?) in R6. But we can survive without it being fixed.

[RBL]

Brian,

These are your words “As you might have noticed, there’s no shortage of bug reports on this forum. Prioritization is hard”.

If that is the case why was Rhino 6 even released then. About the only things that that comes to mind that 6 does way better then 5 is rendering and video. Granted I don’t use 6 that much because I need to get work done and don’t have time to fool around with annoying little problems, nor do the 4 members of my group who have Rhino 5.

This just is really irratating

[brian (Brian Gillespie)]

@Asterisk

Every bug I’ve reported here is a regression from R5. Every single thing is working in R5 as intended and not in R6. I’m only going to post these 3 that are critical to our workflows:

Thank you for helping us prioritize. This is very helpful.

@Asterisk

Obviously this one RH-52539 as we’re branching into using blocks more and more. Including 3D geometry.

We’re investigating this one now. It’s likely to be fixed by @stevebaer, as it’s already fixed in V7. He’s also on vacation at the moment.

@Asterisk

This RH-52277 is just a productivity & habit issue. It feels wrong to force 26 people here relearn to use Ctrl+“other than V” to paste and move.

This isn’t a regression from V5 - it worked that way in V5, too, at least according to comments in that bug. I understand that it’s annoying.

@Asterisk

And this one has been logged and I guess deleted? RH-52583

It’s not deleted, it was just visible to our developers only. It appears that there is already a fix in 6.15 for it? I’m having a hard time interpreting @lowell’s comments - can you please try with a 6.15 build?

@Asterisk

I completely gave up on text masking. There’s too many issues with it in R6 and non existent command/method support.

OK.

@Asterisk

If you’re saying that we can use R7 WIP 'till the end of days

No, but by the same token, we are willing to make much more significant changes in the WIP than we are in service releases. So if you report bugs in the WIP, and ask for big changes, they’re more likely to happen here. If you wait until 7.15 to start logging bugs, we’ll be back where we are today - stuck in a pretty stable product that we’re not willing to do major surgery on. Of course it’s up to you how much you want to engage.

@Asterisk

The gray items in R6 pic are blocks.
Note the text in detail marker is jacked up (justification broken?) in R6. But we can survive without it being fixed.

Are the gray items more evidence of RH-52539?

Can you send a V5 3dm file that reads incorrectly into V6 with the detail marker justification problem? If possible, please send a small file that only reproduces that problem.

@RBL

If that is the case why was Rhino 6 even released then. About the only things that that comes to mind that 6 does way better then 5 is rendering and video. Granted I don’t use 6 that much because I need to get work done and don’t have time to fool around with annoying little problems, nor do the 4 members of my group who have Rhino 5.

Because the features we did add, and the fixes we did make, were worthwhile to other customers to buy. Again, if Rhino 6 doesn’t work for you, please don’t upgrade. We don’t want your money for something that doesn’t make your life better. We also offer a 100% money-back guarantee - if you’re dissatisfied with your purchase of Rhino 6, please return it to your reseller - no questions asked.

And, we’ve tried to make Rhino affordable enough that you can upgrade for a few things and still feel like you got some value. In this case, maybe that’s not true - only you can decide whether it was worth buying. Careful: if you bought at a discount when Rhino 6 first came out, that offer is now gone. If you return today and upgrade later, you’ll pay full price.

[brian (Brian Gillespie)]

@JoergH

I’m just saying, that I think it is wrong to say we are at R15, we completely stop repairing bugs, and let the people wait for V7 to be released. If something is affecting pdf communication or data exchange it needs a bit higher priority I believe.

Please provide a specific reproducible bug to back your claim that export isn’t working (you claim to PDF, DXF, or STP). We can’t fix abstract reports of undesirable behavior.

If you want a bug fixed, please take the time to report it with a 3dm file, screen shots, and clear, reproducible steps to follow.

[lowell (Lowell Walmsley)]

@brian

RH-52583

RH-52583 is not fixed in 6.15. It’s marked Awaiting Dependency. It is fixed in an unmerged branch of 7.x to the point of being testable internally via a test command, but requires an interface change in the DimStyle and Leader properties dialogs to be completely done. That’s why it’s in 7.x instead of 6.x.

The dependency is that there was a change needed in v6 file reading of DimStyles that didn’t show up until the fix for RH-52583 that would have caused some leaders to not be editable in 6.x. That bug is fixed in 6.15 and when a SR containing that fix is out, I’ll either fix the dialog stuff or ask Alain to do it and commit the fix for RH-52583 in 7.x

[brian (Brian Gillespie)]

@lowell

but requires an interface change in the DimStyle and Leader properties dialogs to be completely done.

@lowell according to @Asterisk this also is a regression from V5. Is it possible to fix this in Rhino 6, even though there would be a UI change?

[RBL]

Brian

We don’t want our money back, We really only want Rhino 6 to work as well as Rhino 5. There is a Rhino loyalty factor here.

When Rhino 6 went on sale I knew there was some issues as I had been using WIP on and off for a year or so before it became Rhino 6, and would update version as they were published. There were at times updates almost daily.

I knew there were issues when I bought the new version. I am sure I am not alone in that. I believed that they would be addressed in time and life would go one. But at this date I should be able to open any step file in Rhino 6 especially if it opens in Rhino 5 (RH-52486) as well as do other expected things that I can do in Rhino 5

[brian (Brian Gillespie)]

@RBL

But at this date I should be able to open any step file in Rhino 6 especially if it opens in Rhino 5 (RH-52486)

That bug was reported a week ago, and contains a confidential file, so it’s not public. The bug is in progress, and should be fixed in the V6 timeframe.

I’m afraid we have no way of doing better than working on your issue within the week it comes in.

[brian (Brian Gillespie)]

@brian

@lowell according to @Asterisk this also is a regression from V5. Is it possible to fix this in Rhino 6, even though there would be a UI change?

@Asterisk here’s how we got to where we are:

During the WIP phase of Rhino 6, several of our most active and vocal users (not necessarily ones on this forum) suggested that the implementation of leader text alignment in Rhino 3, 4, and 5 was bad because it didn’t map well to the way AutoCAD works. They wanted to be able to transfer files between Rhino and AutoCAD with 100% fidelity using both DXF and DWG file formats.

Rhino 3, 4, and 5 only auto-aligned leader text to the tail. AutoCAD only explicitly aligns leader text left, right or center.

The change we’re making in V7 is to add back the auto-alignment functionality for leader text. There’s some significant work to make this work right, including:

• Figuring out default values
• Testing compatibility with Rhino 3, 4, 5, 6 (both reading old files and saving to old files)
• Testing compatibility with AutoCAD and other CAD products
• Making sure the UI makes sense

Because the possibility of breaking this for other customers (who requested the change in the first place) is high, and because these features have existed in Rhino 6 for several years, we’re not comfortable making the change in Rhino 6.

Admittedly, this change is a regression for you. Had you been involved during the Rhino 6 WIP phase, you might have noticed and given us some additional feedback to get it right. I strongly encourage you to be involved in the Rhino 7 WIP development. Without your voice, we’ll continue to make Rhino work for the people who are involved - and it might not be to your liking.

[Asterisk]

@brian

This isn’t a regression from V5 - it worked that way in V5, too, at least according to comments in that bug. I understand that it’s annoying.

You’re only half right. Ctrl+Shift+C was that way. Ctrl+V in R5 was doing _Paste Zoom S Pause Pause Move for us since the time immemorial.

@brian

No, but by the same token, we are willing to make much more significant changes in the WIP than we are in service releases. So if you report bugs in the WIP, and ask for big changes, they’re more likely to happen here. If you wait until 7.15 to start logging bugs, we’ll be back where we are today - stuck in a pretty stable product that we’re not willing to do major surgery on. Of course it’s up to you how much you want to engage.

Look, we love Rhino and passionate about it. With all its bugs and shortcomings we’d still choose it over the monstrosity that shall not be named here. We’ve been so swamped for the past year, that only now we are able to make a window to finally shift to R6. R6 WIP was so buggy at the time we had the opportunity to explore it (a year and a half ago) I could spend days just logging and testing all kinds of bugs. And before you blame us for not being involved in WIP development again, I’m just gonna post this here: V5 vs V6 text justification

I will be helping with R7 WIP as soon everyone (26 + potentially another 4 by the end of the year) here is not “suffering” working in R6. I want to help, 'cause Rhino is the lifeblood of our engineering department, but we’d like you to help us a little in return too.

Re: Leader horizontal justification.
RIP hopes and dreams. Is there at least a way to access leader horizontal justification in python? We already use script to plop our leaders, I can make it adjust justification. Otherwise we’d probably have to have all our leaders justified by center. It’s gonna look like ass, but oh well…

@brian

Are the gray items more evidence of RH-52539 ?

Correct. Don’t worry about backwards compatibility. We don’t care for it. We’re only prepared to move forward and onward as bequeathed by great Lenin. /s
We just want surface in blocks and not print the same.

block vs surface pdf.3dm (373.8 KB)
Shaded.ini (12.6 KB)

[stevebaer]

I’m just catching up on this thread as I’m supposed to be on vacation It seems like some information may have been mis-interpreted. If there is a regression in functionality in V6 for any sort of printed output, we will seriously investigate and attempt to fix the bug in a V6 service release. If the bug is easy to reproduce with a simple model, then chances are we can fix this pretty quick. Holo’s draw order bug is very hard to figure out and I doubt this even worked well in V5. That doesn’t mean I’m giving up on it as I have made some tweaks to improve his situation over time, but haven’t completely fixed the issue.

We are releasing V6 for Mac “soon” which means we will have a round of service releases for Mac. Windows users will benefit from this in that some Mac fixes will also be fixes on Windows.

We are not adding new features for V6, but we are still fixing regression bugs.

[l1407]

any time table to release v7?

[wim (Wim Dekeyser)]

Hi - as Brian wrote above:

we don’t tend to release software on a timeline - we release it when we think it’s ready.

[l1407]

what can we use the rhino 6 if which have a big problem, eg. this pdf problem (can’t production) ?

[stevebaer]

Is this pdf issue affecting you? This issue affects asterisk, but there is a possibility you may not be using the same display and print settings.

[l1407]

I have a another problem of printing, I will post it when i sort out the information :0

[Asterisk]

It seems that all display modes are affected that aren’t wireframe or rendered.

RhinoPDF.pdf (2.9 MB)

[stevebaer]

I think this bug may actually be fixed in the latest code for the next V6 service release. We are going to double check on that before sending you off to download and install.

[Asterisk]

@brian

@Asterisk here’s how we got to where we are:

During the WIP phase of Rhino 6, several of our most active and vocal users (not necessarily ones on this forum) suggested that the implementation of leader text alignment in Rhino 3, 4, and 5 was bad because it didn’t map well to the way AutoCAD works. They wanted to be able to transfer files between Rhino and AutoCAD with 100% fidelity using both DXF and DWG file formats.

I dug this out:

(https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/new-feature-rich-text/35770/51\)

Is that no longer the case for R6?