Rhino on the Vision Pro?

Rhino Mac Hardware
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I was watching Apple’s WWDC event and I think Rhino (or any 3D modelling software for that matter) would have some amazing potential to integrate with AR, especially more so given the design team’s decision to use eyesight and hand-movements over a physical controller.

It would be hella cool to be able to digitally sculpt surfaces and pinch CVs in AR. What do you guys think?

From what I gather, it doesn’t seem to be the McNeel nature to jump on the next cool new thing immediately, and I do realize that the market for this would be quite niche, but hey, one can dream

On a side note, their web design is nuts

EDIT: and so is their surfacing; I can’t even begin to imagine the manufacturing process for the seamless glass front

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I’d had a similar thought. Then I imagined McNeal would essentially have to programme for another platform in addition to Mac & Windows.

And then I realised that the iOS version of Rhino already can display USDZ files (I opened the Vision models from Apple’s webpage to try it out) so adapting the iOS app might be quite “straightforward” to create a 3D viewer.

Imagine that for showcasing interior designs as well as objects!

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It depends on how you define Rhino on Vision Pro, as mentioned on their website, you can use the product to replicate your desktop screen. Also, since this is essentially just a different mobile computer, for a large part, the software that runs on it will be identical to what runs on an ipad.

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Given the Vision Pro is running an M2 processor, it’s a Mac with a new OS that is closely related. I just love the idea of having Rhino display in stereo in the VPro - the rest can be stock, i.e., Keyboard and 3DConnexion driving the show.
But thinking of it as an architectural display platform - Oh My!

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But replicating the desktop in a 2D window floating in 3D wouldn’t be too helpful.

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IIRC it was mentioned that all of the Mac’s frameworks would be available on it.

I’m naively hoping that it might be a case of taking Rhino for Mac and swapping out the existing 2D viewport for the AR version. And given the expected cost of the headset, the cost of the software will be a secondary consideration.

Whomever publishes the first CAD package to integrate with Apple’s diving mask will make headlines. Could be serendipitous timing for McNeel given their current steps to move the Mac version to Metal and other related technologies.

I suspect the real work will involve re-evaluating how people draft in 3D, using gaze direction, potentially sans mouse and keyboard (rather than simply replicating the desktop experience).

Now thinking it won’t be useful for demonstrating things to clients given the goggles need to be calibrated to the user. :thinking:

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Don’t forget that there’s something else going on here. Not only is the user’s face displayed on the external screen, the image varies based on viewing direction to itself appear 3D. I don’t know how they achieve that.

I just hope the visor can handle being dropped better than the phones. :scream:

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Rather than thinking of walkthroughs and presentations there may be other ways of using it.

A user can just look at their Mac screen while wearing the VP and the screen moves up into the space in front of the viewer.

So … how many monitors do you want with a resolution of 4K at whatever you are looking at.

If wanting do develop drawings while “walking around inside” or pulling and pushing your viewpoint through the model while manipulating entities - that will have to wait until later.

But the real question is while all the gee whizzery of the current reactions is over … will the interaction between the existing CAD programs displayed over several virtual monitors allow an effective workflow.

How does clicking with mouse button 1 2 or 3 on the mouse or hitting a CTRL sequence on the keyboard interact. What is selecting a set of entities like?

A simple thing like a move or split. I very much look forward to hearing how that works in practice.

I remember being very excited about touchscreens. But for most of us doing the grind of everyday hard yards … touchscreens are just about irrelevant except in a very narrow range of circumstances. Too cumbersome to move from mouse or keyboard to screen, too inaccurate to select something on the screen and get something to move to a particular point.

I’m not at all dissing it … the price starts to look pretty good if it can give me 3 or 4 or 5 high res monitors. So I want to know how well it works for real life workflows. (that will come).

Jumping from CAD to calculator to perspective view, having top, bottom, front, right and perspective all open at once in our field of view on individual screens laid out as third angle or first angle, then to spreadsheet, math solver, back to CAD, pull email up to the front, finish it and flick to the back - but you can still see it to see if that urgent email is answered.

Huge potential … but can you select, can you drag can you copy, can you measure angles or distance, can you snap can you select text as efficiently as with a mouse and keyboard?

Just the thing that none of the youtube commentators are interested in yet.

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Here are a few hints of how it might work for real workflow and some of the unanswered questions in that regard.

From Adam Savage’s youtube channel.

Apple Vision Pro Hands-On Impressions! - YouTube

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Might it be even better? Imagine selecting something by looking at it. No just direction but depth too.

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I’d simply consider it a 3D display - Rhino would have to generate the views to your eyes, and to have it really sing, make the distance between your pupils a preference for the user. Then in perspective view I’ve got a 2D window sitting in front of me with true 3D objects inside the frame. The Vision demo makes it clear that the Rhino interface, i.e. keyboard, SpaceMouse, TrackPad are business as usual. Run Rhino on your own CPU and use the Vision as the display. Time for an M2 Ultra Studio? Yum!

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Worrying about the inter-pupillary distance of various users and calculating what must be drawn on each lens isn’t a per-application problem, it’s something the platform resolves for software that uses the native graphics/AR APIs.

Apple says you cannot currently run MacOS apps on visionOS, but can display apps running on a Mac in one’s Vision Pro, so you can operate Rhino from the Vision Pro. To use Rhino to add objects to an AR environment or walk around in a rendered 3D building in Rhino would require more particular support for visionOS, so visionOS can show people a world with Rhino objects in it. Actually using visionOS’ 3D to improve the interface for Rhino users is something I’d really like to see.

One day I can imagine at the end of a day at work swiping away all the AR work in progress off my desk, and enjoying a clean desk for off-hours, with the saved state of my desk clutter for the next workday.

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All cool, but in the end its a toy.
(But likely not compatible with windows and windows games… So an incomplete toy.)
All its features already exists since years in the competitors. But as usual when it’s apple “it’s magic” …lol.
A glorified , expensive, iphone UI with dof.

Rant aside…

No-one yet created anything better than the keyboard+ mouse paradigm.
Hell, i use 3d mouse on left hand, it’s objectively incredibly useful, yet users seems to not care to even try it!!
A 150$-ish hardware that unilaterally boost you production!!

…

8 hours/day with a weight on your head, hands up in the air with “delicate” interaction?
You don’t want that. Nope.
You want a desk, put your arms on it, use physical hardware that have direct real interaction.

Eye tracking?
Interesting! Add it to the mouse + keyboard combo!

3D? 3D monitors!

Oh, then you also need the software developers support that “unicorn” hardware.

Where did the apple touch bar go?
Same thing.

Do you really imagine McNeel investing dev time to support such a rare hardware/setup with its own dedicated UI/UX?
I do not. Maybe I’m wrong.

VR visors manufacturer need to unify and make a global standard.
Instead no.
Sony made the PSVR2 which again is not compatible with PC (so losing a lot of aftermarket value, losing interest even before ENTERING the market) , now again going to be forgotten.
Wonderful specs… but useless because not compatible with pc/steam. They would have sold 10x units if it were. And now it would still have its aftermarket and interest.

Same thing with apple visor.
It’s a VR. If , today, you can’t even run games on it, it’s a gimmick and will die.

They are arrogantly blind.

Until there is not a common standard, there will be just a mediocre weak market for games. Nothing professional that lasts over time if you use proprietary and closed hardware.

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Given you can currently almost achieve this feat using iRhino3D (on the iPad), it might be a “minor” change to have the display in a 3D volume on the AVP. I can imagine buildings being constructed in the future with builders essentially putting bits of timber or brick to transform a virtual wall into “hardware”.

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There was a time no one created a better interface than keyboard and terminal. Even Xerox (who had the foresight to see the potential in photocopiers when nobody else was interested) didn’t think there was enough of a future for the mouse and GUI to pursue it themselves. So Apple did.

You may be right. It may be a gadget which is priced more than the competition and can do less. On the other hand, I believe they said that about the iPod…

And iPad…

And Apple Watch.

Heck, even the Mac itself came under the same criticism.

:wink:

But what do I know? I once told someone (back in 1997) the internet will turn out to be a fad. :rofl:

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I won’t get one at this price and form, but I’m highly interested in what could be in the future. I’m already impressed by iRhino on iPad, and I thought it could be amazing using that wearing a Vision Pro. I wonder if Rhino3D team tried it or has a plan to try? Curious what their thoughts are on it.

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Sure.
It seems everybody think wrong except for Apple.
If you believe that much in your foreseeing…
Why not buy one apple vr for yourself?

You can check ebay, as people are already selling their presale… Who knows why…

:wink:

Ps, I own an oculus. I tried SubD modeling (gravity sketch) … Cool. But modeling is WAY slower than using normal mouse+keyboard(+3dmouse).
It’s for videogames. And even with those you will soon want to go back to have your head free.

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AaMoF I do intend on buying one. Currently I have a 34" monitor plus a 65" 8K TV as a second screen. I’ve been contemplating upgrading that to a 75". However the AVP would give me several virtual screens at whatever size i desire for less money. (This feature might not be available on the first generation though).

Even without Rhino being updated, I still see AVP as a good investment. I can’t imagine the productivity boost from seeing things in 3D space if Rhino was updated. I mean, what app category benefits more from 3D visualisation than 3D design?

Only problem is there is no schedule yet for it being released in this part of the world.

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Yes, with WAY less angular resolution.

Instead, this feature is accessible since… years? In all other VR headset for Windows.
Still a gimmick.

You can try it with any of the VR system for 1/10 of the price of the Apple one…

I tried it. You are slower at everything.
You can be somewhat faster if you use your normal physical keyboard and mouse… But then just use your normal monitor!

3d view might be useful, but not really if you still have to waste time to navigate like in 2d view… You only have 2 hands, moving your head adds little control.

Try a 3d mouse.

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There’s no mystery there, would-be scalpers are excited the devices are expected to sell out so they’re in the market to resell only; those sellers aren’t dissatisfied customers, they were never customers at all. And on eBay I’ve seen people offer to sell things they don’t even own, as a scam, using payment methods that offer no consumer protection, so there’s that possibility too.

Until there is some real-world experience with people trying to use it for work or play, there’s little to do but imagine. If you want field reports instead of speculation, it’s coming.