From my perspective, as a grizzled CAD user, currently spending far too much on far too many systems the pain points I see in other system are what keeps me buying upgrades to Rhino.
The issue for McNeel is that Rhino is many things to many people. You simply cannot please everybody now. The question is then, what development will ensure users choose to upgrade to Rhino 8, or users of other systems migrate to Rhino?
Without access to the user database I can’t answer that. Who ACTUALLY uses Rhino and for what? Who drives the revenue?
I’m fairly sure it isn’t my type of business!
The flip side to this is, at what point do people using Rhino decide lack of progress in their area means they switch to other options?
The modus operandi of “big CAD” is they want you to use their platform for everything. Dassault/Solidworks, Siemens, PTC, Autodesk, to a lesser extent, all have toolsets that do allow this. Sure, you might think Rhino lets you do some things faster-if you know it inside out and can deal with the 1990s interface.
But all these tools from big CAD come with big price tags. I know, you should see our software bills!
I don’t know the answer, but I do know that soon McNeel need to focus on something. Is that AEC? AEC is a much larger market than ID/MCAD and most of the tools in that sector are 10 years behind MCAD. Dassault are pushing very hard at this sector now. Linking 3D EXPERIENCE apps in ways will meet a need in the supply chain. Same with Autodesk. The link between Inventor and Revit is strong, and likely to include Fusion soon. PTC less so.
Or is it to continue to be the Swiss Army Knife of CAD, which is probably the reason many bought into it in the first place. I kind of feel customers need some kind of roadmap now. If only to allow plug in developers to focus on the areas McNeel will leave alone, and so the plug in folks have a chance of actually making money and staying with Rhino.
So that would be my wish for v8…a roadmap for v9/10/11 etc
While I agree, I think that is still the right choice. Maybe it makes more sense to split Rhino in certain modelling packages and propose a cheaper hobby derivative.
Since 3d printing and other fabrication methods become even more affordable, a new large of users is joining the market. People who never 3d modelled before.
Many of these kind of people I spoke with said, that Rhino is not an option for them, since they don’t use it professionally and it makes no sense to buy a personal license that costly. So they go for Fusion360/Blender/FreeCad or pirated software, while they would have bought a licence for 1/3 or even 1/2 of the price.
Rhino is very cheap to its competitors and probably the best budget solution regarding CAD by far, but for the majority of people outside the US or some other countries, yes even in Europe, 1200 € is expensive.Especially for this group of non-commercial user!
Actually what I’d like most to see would be a platform independent Rhino (from ground up),
but I know McNeel has a different opinion, then I’d move on to something else.
Yes, splitting Rhino into smaller parts would be a good idea IMO (a nice target for Rhino 8).
That would allow people and companies to only buy what they need, or can afford.
Hobbyists would be able to buy the base module at a low price and power users would still be able to use more advanced features, simply buying more modules.
It would also be possible to buy the base module first, and then, maybe 1 or 2 years later to add additional modules, without having to pay a bigger price in one shot.
I think that a Rhino composed by several modules would be much more flexible, both for users and for RMA.
Each module would be in some way independent, with its price and its feature set, allowing Rhino to grow, becoming more expensive for those buying all the modules, by still begin cheap enough for more limited sets of modules.
OK … just my humble opinion for a possible Rhino 8 … or 9 … or 10 … or…
You are actually Right: SpaceClaim started as a plugin for Rhino then became an ACIS based Solid Modeler capable to perform most operation with just three command: Pull, Move & Fill.
There was even a partnership with Rhino but looks like stuck in the past.
It has been acquired in 2015 by Ansys and incorporated in their Discovery direct analysis tools. Not sure what they plan for the future…
So far SpaceClaim remain the Solid Modeler which better handle Rhino files (if not the only one).
Open correctly Rhino v5 / v6 / v7
Save to Rhino v5 / v6
Copy Paste of geometry from Rhino v5 to Spaceclaim
Layer structure is kept and transformed to a Structure Three
Layers are preserved anyway so you can control objects display as Layers or as Parts
Regarding Dark Mode i think the only way so far is tweaking Appearance Colors.
I made my changes as well but cannot make dark the background of setting windows. Where do I change this?
Could you please post a screenshot of your color settings?
Thanks!
Use “OptionsImport” to load this file and you should be fine (disclaimer: there are also some shortcuts assigners, so sorry if your ctrl+s stops working). Works with R7: RhinoOptionsByPetrVacek.ini (151.9 KB)
I don’t think there is much difference in general between the US, Canada and the more affluent European countries as to how much money is “expensive”.
“Expensive” is an interesting concept. Usually it is thought of in comparison with alternatives. I suspect many people who consider Rhino to be expensive are used to free and low cost software,or software paid for on an annual basis where the total cost is not obvious. I always find it interesting when someone complains that Rhino is too expensive but spends considerably more money on items for their hobby such as cameras, power tools, personal watercraft,.
That’s incorrect. Spaceclaim never started and you could have never bought Spaceclaim as a plugin for Rhino. Spaceclaim was always a standalone package, it never existed as a Rhino plugin. And from the starting point it was always cased on ACIS kernel.
Spaceclaim did provide import-export plugin for Rhino. I personally think it was great, but easy for me to say that because that plugin was designed in my office’s conference room with the Spaceclaim team. You could even copy-paste geometry in one direction, and send back-forth selection or entire file with one button click.
The best feature it was the seamless converting of assembly structures from MCAD files (importing from pretty much any native MCAD format) and then send that to Rhino as Layers. Then converting those layers back to assemblies to share back with MCAD users.
I have discussed this feature with McNeel several times, I even got @brian to agree to build this in Rhino, and I’m still hoping we’ll see it one day.
Still today we keep one license of Spaceclaim just to do this, since IMO opinion there’s no way to share a Rhino file with an MCAD team in any sensical manner.
A good example; someone who has never modelled anything before is probably unlikely to program with the API. this strikes me as an area of the software which could be paid for as an additional bolt on. I see the other side of the argument, however, that you would not want to discourage people picking this kind of skill up - I was one of them who learnt a smidge of python on the side because an interest of its use in rhino.
Sounds expensive to break up the product from the perspective of documentation, marketing, technical support, and customer expectations. I don’t see how this would benefit existing users and only see this as a way to slow down our development process. Even figuring out what the base product is would be challenging.
I bought my student license, and the thing I love most Rhino for is this idea of giving students the power to keep the license as a working tool, because they know when we move out of college and start making money and using the tool we are potential customers for the commercial license.
The only reseller I found with price on their site, lists Rhino 7 at R$ 6.500. My Laptop Dell G3 3590 costs around R$6.000, yes, it can run on weaker laptops / desktops, but only with simple stuff. Both cost more than the biggest salary I know of on my engineering team at work.
The cheapest 3D printer I found was around R$3.000. With used semi pro cameras around R$1.000
But yes, I know the cost problem is not McNeels fault or anything, it is my country problem, but I do love McNeel, and the Orca3D team, for giving me the option to buy a student license and keep it forever, since here, the more I dive into the professional world, leaving the college world, the more I see that just working hard will not be enough to get where I want in life, and if there is something I will for sure do, is use Rhino3D, Grasshopper and Orca3D as tools to make that happen.
Despite all that, I am strongly against stripping rhino apart to make it cheaper. The plugin marketplace already does a great work with that, the only sad part is these plugins we keep loosing to greedier companies.
Sorry for any errors, my spellcheck for english uninstalled itself again …
I think this discussion is difficult. I totally agree to what you say, still the reality is that there also many people around who are not earning as much money. A couple of statistic here in Germany claim that 1/3 of the germans having no money at end of the month on the bank account. And if we speak about Germany, just have a look at Eastern Europe. Even a young medician earns only 700€ a month (before tax!) in Poland. Not to speak of Bulgaria and other EU countries. It makes a difference how much something costs compared to your monthly income. And that people with low income are still buying things which are in theory way to expensive for their needs (like IPhones) is another problem. I’m just giving this thought here, that differentiating between commercial and non-commercial use cases is something to consider on a world wide market. But of course the world is not black and white, and as being said, its difficult.
I don’t think money is a problem here.
Those young medicians from Poland agree to earn 700E a month to have 7000 or 17000E a month just decade later. Worth waiting and suffering.
I know what I am saying because:
My origins are Polish
My brother is a doctor and my girlfriend is a nurse
PS. I was long time unemployed but having commercial licence was my priority before having smartphone or car.
Okay maybe this wasn’t a good example. I had friend who moved to Germany for that. If these numbers are true, than I don’t see the reason why so many polish people commute weekly to Western Europe because of this. I cannot understand why this is happening when there is not a problem with money.
I also see a strong ditch when it comes to wealth in my country. Anyway I won’t write much more about it, since it doesn’t follow the purpose of this threat.
Would it be just as expensive to add a higher tier of Rhino? That is, for example, a “Rhino Pro” with an in-house developed VSR replacement (just to do some more CPR on that dead horse), more robust history and perhaps better fillets?
And speaking of expensive, I just saw a thread where the 5000 euro price of the Rhinogold plugin was mentioned again… (but that market can afford to pay, so I don’t feel sorry for them).
Well, since VSR was commercially catastrophic because it was an extra 1000 at first, I’m not so sure if money doesn’t really matter. There was this complete opposite argumentation regarding this incredible useful plugin. At the same time people saying Rhino is cheap, it seems that going for another 1000 or even 5000 maybe is indeed a problem. The pricetag is obviously bound to the demand. But the demand is also bound to the affordability. And here we talk about commercial use-cases, which is not what my intention was about. From a commercial perspective the question is a different. How long does it take to get the return of investment?! And this is very individual.
