I’m working as a designer and naval architect, primarily using Rhino 8, Grasshopper and Vray, and I want to start using Orca as well so that I can have all my created geometry and information in one environment. I’m considering a new Dell Precision 3581 with the following specs:
The GPU is a bit weak . But a stronger GPU like the 4070 or 4090 will also cause more heat and energy consumption (Noise, low Battery). If possible choose a Desktop PC. Mobile GPU’s are also named the same as the Desktop version, but are performing significantly worse.
On the other hand, you will probably okay in terms of performance. People did the same job 10 years ago. Its just not a good deal for the money and I’m always annoyed with the noise and a occasionally hot keyboard on gaming laptops.
Thank you. Besides the GPU, are the other specifications okay? And is it really not a good deal? What would you suggest for a better performance-to-cost solution?
The last time I used Rhino with VRay was in 2013. If I had to render something, I had to wait a night for completion. If that’s okay for you, then today’s mediocre performance is totally sufficient. Rhino and most other applications are still single-threaded to a great portion, which makes sense. So you might waste money if you buy many cores. Probably most of them stay in idle mode. On one of my laptops I use an i7-1280P, which has similar characteristics but cost 200 € less. Its okay to buy a strong CPU, but it doesn’t need to be high-end for this type of work. Again, Single-Core performance is what you should look for.
Ram is good, SSD as well. If you work mobile, maybe a bigger screen is what I would recommend.
But in general, I would not recommend any mobile device at this point, because of the heating/noise issues. If you really need the mobility, then you could also consider alternative solutions like remote desktops, cloud rendering services or eGPU’s for the performance critical jobs. My advice is rather to prevent buying gaming laptops/or ridiculous expensive mobile workstations. A 1000€ Desktop outperforms almost all 2000€ laptops.
But its my personal opinion and maybe someone here can really recommend a good one. I was quite disappointed with all I worked with.
I’d suggest kicking out the RTX 2000 Ada Gen and just swap it for the similar RTX 4060, or better still, change to an RTX 4070.
There is no need to have a Quadro class setup, unless you need very specific qualities around how those cards work. Does Orca really need a quadro class chip?
Also, you may also be better off with an AMD CPU in a laptop, as they tend to have lower temperatures in thier newest series compared to the Intel Raptor Lake CPU you are currently looking at.
Finally, if you can wait a little longer (Q1 2025), you may find that there are better Intel Arrow Lake-H mobile chips which in thoery should use considerably less power for equivalent performance to the Raptor Lake (mobile) CPUs. There is also an AMD Strix Halo that is expected, which, again, should run cooler and use considerably less power.
However, overall, I certainly agree with Tom regarding the desktop. If you aren’t actually going anywhere, then you will get far superior hardware for that kind of money; or equivalent hardware for much cheaper. For EUR 2000, I reckon you could get to:
AMD 7950X (~EUR 500)
Nvidia RTX 4070 Ti Super (~EUR 900) or Nvidia RTX 4070 Super (~EUR 650)
If you can stand a desktop, they will last you for many years, and you get 12 GB of VRAM, which while still distasteful, isn’t as scammy as mobile GPU solutions.
Your current config isn’t terrible for a corperate solution, but you will get much better out of an equivalent gaming class laptop if you can stand the change to RTX gaming class GPUs. Check with other Orca users if this is fine/normal for the simulation aspects (I know nothing of Orca). The same goes for desktop GPUs.
I agree with the desktop recommendations, but I also suggest a 4K monitor to go with it. Even if you choose a notebook, I still suggest getting one with a 4K screen. It allows you to see more of your model context even when zoomed in for a closer look at a detail. Also allows you to have Rhino open with a smaller window yet with sufficient detail to work, while you can have other apps visible on the screen at the same time. Just provides a nicer overall experience.
I was going to say that it is horrendous that in 2024 there are still laptops with Full HD screens. Then I checked Dell’s website and it says the Dell Precision 7670 has a 4K OLED screen, which is probably very good.
Curious why your specs specifically say Full HD instead?
Edit: seems like they offered different versions, but on the website make it sound like they all have the 4K OLED screen.
Either way, a 16" Full HD screen is going to look very pixelated.
I do know. Personally, the quality of the screen is not important. I will use it as a workstation with separate screens, and sometimes I need to bring the laptop with me to a client.
I think there have been a lot of posts on this Forum asking for suggestions for PCs. It’s difficult to predict and there are too many factors - a lot of them software related - to really be able to say.
The combination is more than OK. It will run absolutely fine and probably be very fast in most instances. It will serve you well for quite some time I am sure.
If you are mainly using external monitors, than that aspect will be fine as well.
ps: if you are using the laptop as a workstation hooked up to monitors, you absolutely want to make sure you are managing/watching the heat. Laptops are not good at dissipating heat, because everything is so crammed. With the lid closed it will usually heat up even more than with it open. So make sure it is well ventilated, especially from the bottom and you clean out dust regularly!
I think the whole “ask users of specific software what hardware they recommend”…I would formally call it a trope that is some kind of logical fallacy that needs to be given a name and put in the dictionary. Half of us have no control over what we use, and our job is to USE it not benchmark every piece of hardware that comes along. You might get some opinions based on the last time someone upgraded in 2021. And laptops are even worse, no one can tell you what compromise between price and performance and heat and portability is best for you.
My only advice is “when looking at benchmarks Rhino is somewhat analogous to games” and “wait as long as you can, spend as much as you can, don’t look back.”
Hi @Stijn2
For me your hard drive space is too small. I did the mistake of getting a laptop with 512 ssd not enough space and prices have come down so I would get a larger hard drive at least one tera or better two. And if dell offers it, get an extra, fast 7200 rpm drive for storage with at least 2 terra or more. I don’t use dell but I found XoticPC builds great laptops and Pcs. My last laptop an MSI was the best computer I’ve used, a custom mod built by XoticPc. I recently ordered a tower from them with water cooling etc real fast and powerful and really quiet and at a great price. You can get extra cooling and customize your laptop to see what you might want at a certain price. I’d shop around a bit first.
RM
I recently did a TON of research into a hardware upgrade and ended up with a mid-range laptop. Comparing my laptop to yours (using Blender Benchmark Open Data):
For GPU: Your video card scores a 2750, my Laptop 4070 scores a 3445. More people use the 40 series video cars series - there is safety in numbers. I don’t know much about the ADA cards though. The 4060 (laptop) scores 3200 on the benchmark and the 4050 around 2500 (don’t go that low even if the price looks right). The 4060 is probably the lowest-end card you’d want to consider.
For CPU: Your CPU is just over 150. My Ryzen 9 CPU is just over 200.
RAM: The bottleneck with new laptops is that many only include 16 GB Ram. Windows 11 appears to be consuming a lot of RAM (something is). So far I haven’t had the stomach to rip apart my laptop case (watched some videos, the video’s author was even commenting on how much they hated the noises it was making). Most affordable laptops don’t come with enough RAM which is strange because it’s one of the lowest-cost things you could include.
I paid just under $900 Euro for my laptop. I’m in Canada actually. What I noticed is that prices are EVERYWHERE. If you bring $1,000 to a shop you don’t necessarily get that much value in return - you really need to know your specs. I see my same laptop “on sale” for around $1500 Euro.
Laptop versus Desktop: When I was shopping around (again in Canada, Europe might be a different scene), against all convention I noticed that I could get way more bang-for-buck performance wise with a laptop. We’re talking dollar-per-dollar here. The exceptions are only at the uppermost end. Even with mid-upper level performance more bang for buck was found with the laptops. The laptop version of the video cards will (almost) always be slower than their desktop counterparts. And sometimes they have less V-Ram. But the performance difference doesn’t make up for the cost difference. Not right now and not in Canada. This seems counterintuitive to most because it was never like this before. But here we are… You just need to know which laptops to avoid. There’s a few brands I’ll refrain from mentioning for now. Also avoid the low-end garbage (which wont work well for the stuff we’re doing anyways) as they’re most prone to overheating. The 40-series cards actually run relatively cool for how fast they are (compared to 30-series). I think for longevity buying a cooling stand is a good investment.
Note that the 50-series cards are on their way so that will shake up the prices. The best prices I saw were also around Cyber Monday/Black Friday last year. Second best were boxing day, then prices basically stayed high all year round.
I‘m also net getting tired to mention to left-over some budget for ergonomic gear and activities, and knowledge about your work. The Rh/Gh community is notorious for its controlpoint consumption
I have bought a Precision 7680 almost a year ago, the model you have mentioned must be older than that… I am not sure if you have found a good deal because of it?
I basically have the “same” configuration but “updated”:
i7 13850HX
RTX 3500 ADA 12 GB
While the 12th generation i7 in your configuration may not perform that bad compared to the newer version, I don’t think the A3000 comes even close to a cheaper RTX 4060, regardless of the higher memory. To my knowledge the A series are more similar to the earlier RTX 30XX, or even worse, hence it may not be worth the asking price.
The 7680, in case you may be thinking of getting one, is a very powerful machine but it has a big problem: it overheats A LOT even when idle.
I believe it may be due to a design flaw (slim chassis, all metal) that cause the heat to dissipate through the chassis and keyboard, rather than being pulled out by the fans.
I don’t know if the 3581 shares the same issue (it seems to have the same design, plus it’s smaller and it has a i9 processor…) but if overheating is a deal-breaker for you then I would recommend to check online for customer reviews about that model.
