M1 Mac Mini, Mac Studio - Universal Binary - Peformance?

well yeah right blender ldoes look cleaned up, i should have bitched at the navigation only

i tried a script from @Michael_Meyer who had taken the basis from @nathanletwory if i am not mistaken which was supposed to set the navigation to rhino like, but it did not work properly for mac, depending on which mode you where in the navigation stopped working and utilized the standard navigation again driving me nuts. wasting days trying to set it up i finally gave up. also i still can use cinema so i am not that urged and i have used cinema for more than 20 years. relearning all the fancy stuff will not be that simple and many functions are not that easy if at all to handle in blender according to a vast feasibility study i made. blender is a serious tool, not that i am trying to bash its ability, but its just too awkward right now. also changing the navigation to a more standard like as they have done just a few versions ago did not help getting it right in my opinion.

also one simple thing which was just unbelievable, which nobody seems to worry about is how fast you can zoom in and out, there is not a single setting for it and researching the web up and down did not yeald any freaking results… well if i can not even move and navigate as i want then its just no fun, no matter if its free and how many really nice features it provides. navigation is one of my core elements to function fast and sufficient, something which i am very concerned about rhino either. the functions are neat gimmicks but i have to move fast once i have an idea, getting knots into my fingers brains and patience is just no good then. :slight_smile:

I haven’t tried Cinema 4D yet, but I know that’s it’s beloved in the visual effects scene and seems to work great with ARM-based macs.

I wonder how the controls are laid out, since I first started using Maya and Modo, and the industry standard controls and even how Blender largely works is pretty similar to those two.
I largely use Rhino with commands, meaning I only use the buttons and menus, if I don’t know the exact keyword to invoke the command. What I like, is that Blender also offers to work that way. You can hit the Tab (for industry standard controls) and search for the next thing to do. It’s super practical, if you don’t know where the menu item or button is located, but you know what to search for.

You could set your mouse wheel speed to a lower value though.

Navigation with the mouse works principally the same as in Rhino, you just have to use the ALT key a lot.

yes thats true, cinema has gotten a strong reputation for visual effects in the last several years, that is due to a tool introduced back in 2006 which allows stunning and simple to build up parametric animation, very much like grasshopper could be used just way easier to configure. which is also the reason i still use it as a formfinding instrument. rather than knotting my brain into grasshopper.

but that also created quite a bit of a shadow over its actually abilities which are no less than Maya or any other comparable Software out there. the reputation seems to have confined it so much that people informing them selves about which software to use are being told by people not knowing the software and just talking over read up opinions, that Cinema is basically just for Motion Graphics which is a serious understatement and seems to persists just like the neverending mac windows debate.

cinema was one of the first, if not the first commercial tool which allowed to paint directly onto the surface with the tool named bodypaint. something i would love for Rhino either.

i learned Maya later at my university, torturing myself through the lessons i did some work but switched back to cinema which is way easier to handle and has the same tool set. cinemas only real weak point is Nurbs Surfaces which are ridiculous, using them let alone modelling with them is catastrophe, though SuBD former Hypernurbs is terrific, something Rhino could improve on either at least in matters of modelling with them.

they are easy to configure, though the initial set up is as awkward as blender probably, but because i grew up with it i got used to it, but since using Rhino i set it up just the same there.

using shortcuts and aliases is also what i prefer in Rhino, but the mac version has quite a few hick ups still in these regards, not allowing to enter or inconsistent commands which you cant complete or tab through which unfortunately is being treated very very stepmotherly, i have been complaining about this for years in this forum :flushed:

au contraire, i would like it much faster, and having my wheel speed set up to max it still moves like Momo’s Kassiopeia, just that i dont think it wants to send me a message that way :smiley:

well, i will not let blender get behind my horizon just yet, if i manage to set it up gaining reign over its navigation i shall very much wrap my time into it.

Yes! :beers:

I don’t see a huge difference in terms of scrolling speed between Rhino and Blender though.

If you want to do nice renderings from time to time, it’s well worth the time to learn the basics, because one thing that Rhino probably will never be as good as, is providing cheap plug-ins that do amazing stuff in terms of rendering or have a huge library of free and paid assets to decorate architectural projects with.

just to be sure, i mean zooming in and out. Rhino has a setting for it, Blender not.

well i am going to say it loud and proud, i am a minimalist in these regards, which is also an economic decision not having to spend time learning every single gimmick i probably never use. i rather think how to manage my ideas with what i have rather than downloading a multitude of cluttering plugins. if there is something i really have to incorporate because there is no other way to achieve my needs i take a quick deep dive. till then add ons are what i really dont like, economical laziness.

Have you tried using fly navigation instead of zooming? You can adjust the fly (zoom) speed with mouse wheel. Press LMB when you are in location where you want to be. Mouse wheel up and down to adjust fly speed.

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Are there plans to introduce this kind of navigation to Rhino? I use it all the time in Archicad too, makes work tremendously faster.

Nothing for the near future. Improved walkabout is on the list, but no ETA.

What would the improved walkabout look like? Something like the Blender/AC style movement, or now is the time to ask to create a wish for "Fly navigation for Rhino?

game-like controls (WASD) I’d assume, but it is pretty much on the backburner.

Hi @encephalon
Do you perhaps have some info [from your oracle connections… Mac rumors , other sources …] on this year plans for the MBP 16’ ? more specifically: will they put the M1-Ultra chip in the MBP ?
or is the M2 expected to arrive some time this year?

[guess I’m currently in a similar position to you, in the sense of working from a 2013 MBP and trying to decide when to upgrade…]

With thanks
Akash

Hi @Akash, one thing i learned is not to trust the rumours and make your own brain. an update to the mac mini was announced so early in the rumours that i thought it can not be true because the mac mini never received such a frequent update, instead i believed them which made me waiting and waiting and waiting you get the picture. i am really close to just buying one, because it is fairly affordable and i am sure very usable and much faster than the 2013 mpb and can be sold again, sort of an interim solution. buying a new mpb is of course a considerable investment, if you are dearly in need of a laptop i am sure you can not go wrong with the current models. yes rumours are that m2 will be surfacing soon since the m1 has obviously marked the final chapter with the ultra but when when when i have no clue. also i am not clear what the ultra will have for a role in the mpbs since mbps are flag ships and might rather get proper update (m2) but i am thinking they could also be updated in june with the ultra. i rather avoid all that rumours recently… so i am currently probably not a good source for inspiration :slight_smile:

to give you any advice my tiny full of crap brain would spit out currently is to at least wait till june and make a decision to buy or to wait a further 6 month.

With regards to Rhino 7 you may actually experience worse performance on an M1 than with your older Intel based Mac. The OpenGL drivers on the M1 are not working as well as the older Intel ones and I am in the process of trying to find some work arounds to improve speed.

Rhino 8 will be using Metal and there you can expect new silicon based Macs to have great performance.

Thanks
I’ll wait for now…
and thanks you @stevebaer, Yes this 2013 2.6GHz machine with the little Nvidia card still runs Rhino well enough, Just rendering/raytarce are too slow to even try. Choking on Hi res Mesh being the other notable frustration.

Akash

I doubt that it’s right around the corner. It’s probably not going the surface until late autumn, if even this year.

I don’t think so. I doubt they’ll be able to fit an appropriate cooling system in the MacBook Pro chassis. It uses also considerably more power than the M1 Pro and Max - even though far lass than any desktop gaming pc - and thus probably is not really fit for mobile applications. I guess it will remain a desktop exclusive for now.

I think their current line up is as good as it gets in terms of choice and performance, if I compare the current situation to the last decade or so.
Also the M2 will probably have a slightly better single core performance and a couple more cores here and there, but the performance jump from the M1 will surely not be astronomical.
Unless you want a Mac Pro, which was possibly rendered obsolete by the Mac Studio, why wait? The perfect computer is a mystical beast anyway.

The Mac Mini will also remain a “budget” Apple computer, with mediocre performance and an okay price. Waiting for a cheap, super powerful Mac Mini is pointless, even more so now with the Mac Studio, which is basically a beefier version of the Mini.

With such an old computer, I’d be afraid of it dying every day. :smiley:

How big is the probability that Rhino 8 will be released in 2022? And I know that you won’t release it until you feel good about everything, but what does your gut say? :slight_smile:

We are slating development for 2022 so highly unlikely. Metal is an absolute massive project and then there is everything else.

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well the apple future is just too jittery to make any predictions, hence preaching to avoid rumours which might be the better method.

i totally agree on the current line up. there is not much you can do wrong if you get one now. if you are not in a special case like me in need for a very compact clutter free mac mini, boy i am so ready to buy the studio anyway :smiley:

i wish i could help, more than just saying you have my crossed fingers and held thumbs on that. hope that helps a tiny little bit.

Hi thanks
not waiting for the Mac Pro, which apple said is coming next by the way… perhaps with a quad chip = 4 max 256 RAM and even bigger fans then these they put in the Studio [speculating here]

If I had a home I’d get the Studio with the ultra chip now…
But for traveling

time Machine backups, but yes that is a concern.

thanks a lot
Akash

I currently work with an M1 Max, 32GB RAM and it’s hell. A basic file is very laggy, performance is way WAY better on an old 2015 13" MBP. Of course I don’t use Rhino often on here, but when I do I’m forced to use the WIP, which works very well only after turning Metal on (command “TestMetal”).
Once Metal is running the experience is very good, and I see no issues apart from the expected bugginess of a pre-release software.
Still no rendered views working, regular one nor Cycles on my part.
I noticed no relevant improvement yet with the (recent?) switch to Universal app, but it is true, as already said, that I am not using it much as of late.

Apple M1 Ultra cannot compete with top-tier GPUs from Nvidia. details: OpenCL Benchmarks - Geekbench Browser