When I got my Ps4 console back in 2014 I immediately felt the Dualshock 4 controlled uncomfortable where the middle fingers are usually placed onto the huge radius of the G1 transition. I did a search at the time and noticed that many people complained about the same problem. Me and a few of my friends basically had to sell our consoles solely for that reason shortly after the purchase. That radius area was way too uncomfortable to ignore.
As for the G1 transition visually-wise, it’s super obvious under certain viewing angle where the highlights suddenly change direction.
No idea how you were able to measure the size of the lady’s hands. The point is, most gamers put their middle fingers in the exact same location of the game controller. That G1 radius continues towards the bottom of the controller, so even people with very small hands will have to feel its uncomfortable shape. Even if one has considerably longer fingers, he or she still touches that large radius.
You would be surprised at the variety. I, for example, don’t put it there.
I don’t need to measure to state a simple fact of biology. Females tend to have smaller sized hands. For instance, by looking at the photo she seems quite comfortable holding the controller that way. You, on the other hand, sold the whole console. You seem to imply that because it was so uncomfortable to you and because of the fact that you sold the console little after buying it for this, then everyone has to find it obviously and unbearably uncomfortable, which is not the case. The same picture you posted to explain your point contradicts it. Some people, just like this lady and me, are ok with the controller.
Btw, the thickness of your fingers is definitely a variable here. Too thick and you might find it uncomfortable, too thin and it might feel ok.
This seems like a perfect demonstration of the Sony designer not being in tune with power users and having a less nuanced understanding of the design criteria- more of an issue of ergonomic mapping that did not work for your demographic- rather than a G1 vs G2 issue. Other posts here have referred to this as something being wrong in the clay model or foam model that was not sculpted correctly. I see what you are saying for sure- just not sure that a higher level of continuity would solve the issue. Of course as designers we should have higher standards than our user and articulate design principles where management or users say “I dont like it” but there is a balance to be struck between the auteur vision of the designer vs the end-user experience of the design. In other words, if the only person who appreciates the level of work is the designer- then this is the realm of art, and design is about making an impact on people.
You can’t judge how comfortable a game controller is by just holding it in the hands for a moment to take a shot for an on-line article. Usually it takes at least half hour of active playing to start to feel if the shape is comfortable or it has some areas that don’t seem right.
The same goes with car seats, chairs etc. At first glance everything may feel nice, but the more time you spend sitting on it, the better you understand its advantages and weaknesses. Interestingly, that principle even applies to people.
I already mentioned that it was not just me who found that large radius to be very uncomfortable. Many people didn’t like it. And many sold their consoles just for that reason, then switched to Xbox One (despite the worse graphics) because its controller felt soooo much better in the hands. A few other of my friends kept their PS4 consoles, but had to buy 3rd party controllers to avoid using the Dualshock 4 controller.
Also, in my previous post I mentioned that the large radius reaches the bottom of the controller, so even teenagers with smaller hands and short fingers could feel the inconvenience caused by the radius.
You are totally right. The bigger problem with that G1 transition is the wrong ergonomics. Visual appearance is not good either, but it’s not something most people would care about as long as the controller feels good in their hands. A smaller radius would feel much more comfortable. However, it failed to deliver in the ergonomics department.
What’s even worse is that the Dualshock 4 controller seem to use some sort of G1 blend instead of an exact G1 radius. This is why its G1 transitional surface is visually flatter in the middle, unlike true radius surfaces that have a constant radius profile.
That area would be comfortable even with G1 should they used a considerable smaller radius. A G2 blend surface with the same width between the main surfaces at either end has a much smaller radius in the middle (well, not exactly a radius, because it does not have a constant curvature). Here is an example of how that area of the DS4 controller would look like with a proper G2 blend.
No, hands with thinner fingers will have less trouble fitting 3 fingers into that grabbing space than hands with thicker fingers. I, for example, can only fit 2, so I don’t put my middle finger in there. Plus, most of of the time I use both R1 and R2 for my right hand, one for each finger. For the left hand, one finger can swap between L1 and L2, so I use my middle finger below the controller for support.
You use your DS4 controller in an unconventional way. This is why you refuse to accept that the big radius in that particular area is a product design done wrongly. It depends on the type of games you play, as well how you decided to use the controller.
The majority of gamers don’t put two fingers on both the R1 shoulder button and the R2 trigger. Millions of them don’t even use L1, R1, L2 and R2, because many games don’t use these buttons and triggers. I have seen many people holding the controller just like that woman from the photo above and some find the big radius at the bottom way too uncomfortable.
I refuse to accept?! It is not uncomfortable to me, then it is not wrong to me. Period. I don’t how you can be so obtuse as to invent statistics out thin air and from your 5 friends and not realize you are doing it!
You say it is bad product design because it was unconformable for you and your 5 friends?! And conveniently, when faced with contradictory evidence you disregard it as saying it is an anomaly and that I hold the controller unconventionally/not as it was meant to be hold.
Maybe it is you and your 5 friends are holding wrong the controller and thus you find it uncomfortable?
You have already collected like 6 fallacies plus confirmation bias under your belt. The worst thing is you don’t even realize it!
Why do I keep forgetting not to argue with people that do not know how to argue.
I guess we all can agree that G2 can not save bad ergonomics, but that wasn’t the point of bringing the PS4 controller into this argument anyway, was it?
Class-A is just a way of saying that something needs or is of a certain quality. It needs to look great when highly polished and studied while slowly rotating under linear lights (Car show room). And that’s basically it, but how do you convince your projectmanager that the 20+ hours you spent on a blend IS that when all he sees is a shaded object with wireframe on a CTR screen? Well, that’s where it all started 30 years ago, and you needed terminology and standards that would describe quality. G2 is one such quality. But just like with color harmony, using it does not mean that you get the best result imaginably, just that you get a certain quality, and sometimes deviating from the quality yields better results. Just like ART, know the rules so you know when and how to break them to achieve your vision.
Sometimes intentional dissonance is a good thing.
The boxy, "engineeristic“ (is that even a word?) look of g1 fillets has its place.
It all depends on the context.
A G2 blend would make the Dualshock 4 controller both, more comfortable and more beautiful.
A G1 fillet with much smaller radius would also make it more comfortable.
About 10-12 years ago I also had a “Bosch” jig saw with horrible ergonomics. Its G1 fillets looked nice and “mechanical”, but using the tool was a bad experience, because the radius where I held the jig saw was so big that it required multiple times more force to be held stable, ultimately leading to worse experience while cutting.
One problem with product design, which I already mentioned in an earlier post, is that some designers don’t take into account the simple fact that certain products feel in a different way during usage, in comparison to just holding them in the hand (or sitting on a chair for a few seconds).
The point is, most gamers put their middle fingers in the exact same location of the game controller. That G1 radius continues towards the bottom of the controller, so even people with very small hands will have to feel its uncomfortable shape. Even if one has considerably longer fingers, he or she still touches that large radius.
Usually it takes at least half hour of active playing to start to feel if the shape is comfortable or it has some areas that don’t seem right.
