Sweep fail - How to robustly model swept profiles?

Matheron,
Thanks for the nice clear examples file which provided a nice framework for all of us to work off of for this discussion.

Sadly the only thing I can add is my support for wishing this were possible with simple one or two clicks as well. As we know these simple examples have simple multi-step workarounds. But trying to apply those workarounds to more complex profiles and rails (like last example set in your file, but instead of rectilinear profile use complex rounded/convoluted profile) is an extremely tedious chore.

I couldn’t agree more, Rabbit. I’m from a workshop background and have created plaster ‘sledged’ shapes for many clients. One way to make a complex shape like this in the workshop is to sledge/drag it in plaster, make a mould and then take a cast, for arguments sake in GRP. You cut up the length, mitre it and then bond it back together to create the corners etc, the trick is a craftsman can create complex mitres and compound shapes where the average technician could create 90 or 45 degree corners…

It’s the same with software, often people expect too much and hope to find an easier route or a command that will remove the headache… The more commands we have which remove the need for some knowledge remove the need for a skilled workforce and the next thing you know… Everyone is doing it.

Having said that, I’m all for seemingly simple solutions, I remember having a couple of lessons for AutoCAD V11.0 back in the early 90’s where the tutor said: “If it feels like there should be a simpler solution, there usually is” - that’s stuck with me through my design career but it’s knowing when to accept that you’re at that point : )

Needless to ask too many questions, if a software like SketchUp (with its plug-in) can solve this kind of operation, then Rhino is back!
Needless to make turns of phrase and give a justification: Rhino should get a move on!!!
For the kind of software, the sweep should work with Rhino to 99%, at least these!

So, You are mixing different technologies and 3D modeling methods. What kind of 3d modeler is SketchUP? Are You expert in nurbs, mesh and solid modeling? Do You know the differences and what can be done with each one! SketchUP can not draw a simple circle - what a garbage:}}}}
It is normal to ask - just be positive and more realistic!

Thank you everyone who has answered so far.

A year has gone by. Has anyone found a general solution?

How do you robustly sweep profiles along rails in Rhino?
Generally speaking, the problem arises when a (planar) rail has tight inner corners and the (planar) profile is wide. The problem gets worse as the inner corners get tighter, the profiles get wider, and the parts get more complex. The first post in this thread explains the problem in some detail. This problem still remains. Both sweep1 and sweep2 are affected.

Please note that the image in the first post illustrates merely one case.
Our question is not just about the illustrated case, but how to solve the general case.


As to the individual posters:

@davide76 - Yes, there is something to this. But let us be kind to the McNeel folks, they are doing their best. That said, it is good thing to let them know what we users prioritise.

@cadmaster - Yes indeed, we like to work sometimes with meshes, sometimes with nurbs, and always ending up with solids. Sketchup certainly is not “garbage”, nor is Rhino. They are different tools for different jobs. You can create a masterpiece with a piece of paper and a turd if you’ve got the most important thing - talent.

@mcramblet - Price tag is not the main issue here. The price of the software will not explain why certain programs can handle these cases, while certain others cannot. Once you understand the problem, the code required to make sweep work in this instance, at least for cases where both rails and profile are planar, is probably a matter not of weeks, but of days.

@skysurfer - Thank you. Your method seems to work in the example in the first post’s image, but please note that this image is provided only as a pedagogic example. In the general case, both rails and profiles may have subparts in the hundreds including curves. So although offsetting and extruding may help in the particular case illustrated, I fail to see how it works in the general case. In the general case, more complex forms need sweep or equivalent. And then we are again back where we started.

@rabbit - My example invoking the millions of historical plaster cornices out there was made to bring attention to the ubiquitousness of swept forms similar to these. They really are everywhere. A more robust sweep function assumes no “magic”. Why? Please look at the first image in the first post. Few people would argue that Rhino’s actual Sweep1 result is preferred above the intended result. There seems to be general agreement that sweep should solve these cases as well. Not only that, there is general agreement on what the result should be.

@Sabino - Yes, Rhino would improve if McNeel’s developers gave certain basic tools more attention. For instance - no pun intended - the handling of blocks remains somewhat convoluted for such a basic feature. But that is another question. Let us agree that sweep needs some attention.

@wim - I agree that we users need to clarify to McNeel what we need. Still, “sweep1” is more fundamental than, say, “flow along surface”. “Line” is more fundamental than “sweep1”, and so on. In most workflows, 3D forms are constructed cascading historically from simple to complex. Therefore, they are hierarchically dependent on each other. So there is a case for commands generating more fundamental geometry to be at least as robust as commands further down the general workflow.

@nz_sales - You are right in principle. However, Sketchup, and allegedly Geomagic, too, solve sweeps like this in one single go. So some convenient solution is more than possible - it is actual.

@Stratosfear - If true, this is good news. Please describe one of the “easy workarounds” you mention, step by step, for the general case where profiles and rails both have straight and curved parts, both in the hundreds.

@2DCube - Good to know. An excellent consolation for destitute 3D modelers:
“If it feels like there should be a simpler solution, there usually is”. Well, let us go there.

@carvecream - Thank you for your kind words. Exactly my point.

@cdordoni - Yes, in a way. Better tools have been indispensable to the history of economic and scientific progress. I have read that the oldest known tool was a stone pebble which was chipped to have a sharp edge. This tool was manufactured in the same fashion for quite some time. After about 500000 years, however, some primate simply had enough. He improved the pebble by adding a second edge, making each tool last twice as long. The next improvement, however, was much quicker. This time around, it took only about 250000 years to arrive. Lesson learned?

We humans need to become better skilled at specifying what tools we need, and why we need them.


This sweep issue remains unresolved.

In the meantime, we have used other 3D modelers.

How do you robustly sweep profiles in Rhino?

Hoping for good news.

Calling the cleverest of Rhino wizards - have any of you found a solution?

The original 2014 question is, roughly:

How to sweep wide profiles along tightly sectioned rails into a good polysurface in more or less one go?

Many answered. None solved it.

We know there is a solution, since it works in other 3D modelers.

Any success in the past nine hundred and thirty-five days?
Will Rhino 6 step up and nail it?

Hoping for good news that make our office go back to Rhino…

Wrong tool for the job. Sure you can pound in a nail with a wrench but why not use the hammer in your toolbox instead?

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In Rhino 6 wip it seems to me that now the exercise over runs: Sweep1 runs correctly.

I’m interested to know what software you’re using now instead of Rhino and why you’d come back to Rhino if the software you’re using does the job?

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