R8.18 - toolbar management issue

Hi there,

The toolbar management is actually really not intuitive and have impredictable behaviors, bugs.

I have many .rui that I try to merge into one single. I cannot move a toolbar from a group to another.

Also how can I export these “settings” ? Because .rui no longer exist in R8… How can I create a .rws file ? or even an .xml .

Actually I’m quite confuse with the only information that exist ; Transferring Personalized Settings [McNeel Wiki] I spent already an hour trying to figure out how its works. Complicated.

Regards,
CC

The Wiki article you mention is old and completely outdated relative to V8.

They do actually. Just not default.rui. You can open all of your original .rui’s via the Toolbar window, you can then (I think) copy the buttons to the default library. I have not tried this personally. You will of course end up with buttons that have bitmap images instead of V8’s vector graphics.

Personally I would bite the bullet and remake your custom buttons from scratch in V8 - but that’s just me.

And yes, I agree that it’s complicated and confusing.

Edit - as I wrote this on the train last night withhout access to my computer…

I tested this morning, I exported a custom toolbar with some custom buttons as an .rui from V7. From a default scheme of V8, I ran Window>Toolbars and then File>Open, browsed to the .rui I just created and hit OK to open it. The toolbar appeared on the screen. I then copied the buttons into an existing toolbar in the default workspace, went back to Toolbars and closed the .rui file. To make doubly sure the reference was removed, I actually deleted the .rui from where it was.

I then closed and reopened Rhino, the copied toolbar buttons were still there and worked. However, the macros under the buttons do not show up in the macro library, so the only place they are stored is in the differential .xml file that was created to store modifications to the default install.

In a second experiment, I did the same thing, but instead of copying the buttons to an existing toolbar, I made a new blank toolbar in default and copied the buttons there. The result was the same as above, the copied toolbar and buttons work even afer the .rui has been closed, but again, their macros are not stored in the macro library, but only in the .xml file.

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@Helvetosaur, thanks for the precision !

Regarding what you said and also the confusion of .rui / .xml or R7 and R8, I will try to make my question clearer:

1- Lets say I want to do things properly In R8. I will restart from scratch. I guess I will go this way (please correct me if i’m wrong):

  • A.Create a new workspace (file – toolbar – file – new - new rui file. (Questions : R8 isn’t intended to continue working with .rui file (although it can handle it)? Should I rely on .rws (rhino work space) or .Xml, and if yes how ?)
  • B. Recreate all my toolbars and re-import all my macros
  • C. Save and export this new Workspace (my backup). How I do that? So I have the insurrance if new update wipe it all out, I wont loose this.

2- Finally I saw that new R8 workflow to manage all this is to come Transferring Personalized Settings [McNeel Wiki]. Should I expect that it will change the process of what I’m doing here? For instance releasing a new .extension file that will collect all of this information into 1 single place? And any Idea of when will this be released ?

3- Regarding toolbar groups (or .rui file.. is it the same?). I noticed that I couldn’t simply drag a toolbar to another :



An I couldn’t simply save it. (how I’m supposed to save this ?! confused.)

It would be so easy if it works this way.

Regards,
CC

So, to try to make this stuff clearer:

(All of the following is my understanding of the situation and contains some of my own opinions, so take it for what it’s worth.)

In V7 and earlier an .rui was necessary even if you just used the default tools. All the Rhino toolbar info was stored in .rui files. You could modify the default one, make your own copy or a new one, have several open at one time, back it up etc. Without any .rui open, you had no toolbars.

In V8, the default tools/toolbars have been moved out of the .rui file and incorporated into the base installation. I have a tendency to call this the default ‘tool library’, you can see what tools are in it by going to Window>Macros.... There is no longer a discrete default toolbar file to do anything with. You can modify the basic set of tools, change their arrangement, add your own new tools/toolbars, etc. The changes to the default setup are stored in an .xml file in the settings folder. Any changes are automatically saved on the fly. There is therefore no longer really a ‘need’ for an .rui file. But it is still possible to have and use one or more additional .rui files if you wish. They can be considered more like “accessories” now.

So the question to ask is - do I actually need an .rui file? My feeling is that most people will not. It depends on how much you are going to add/modify your workspace and how you want to keep track of stuff.

Personally I have a modified default set of tools which reside docked on the left, plus an .rui that contains top and bottom custom toolbars that contain hundreds of custom(ized) tools in various buttons and flyouts. Some of the buttons im my custom toolbars in the .rui actually reference toolbars in the default library. It’s fairly complex to manage and I don’t recommend it to anyone.

The main reason to do this is to have vector icons. If you don’t care, a quicker/easier solution is simply to open an .rui with your custom tools exported from V7 in V8. If you want to do this I would consolidate your custom tools into any number of custom toolbars in V7 and then export just those as a single .rui - do not export the default stuff from V7.

If you do choose to recreate everything in V8, it will be a fair amount of work. My personal recommendation is do not use the procedure you used in V7 or earlier, creating toolbars, adding new buttons and then adding the commands and images to the buttons.

The reason is most people do not understand what a macro actually is. It is not uniquely just the command field. A macro is actually a set of data that includes all of the following:

  • Name - each macro needs a discreet name, this is how they are referenced
  • Command - the actual code that is executed, be it a Rhino command, a script or whatever
  • A button text - what is displayed on the button if you activate this option
  • A menu text - macros can be used for menus as well as toolbars
  • A Help text - not sure where this stuff is used, maybe by custom plugins
  • A tooltip - what is displayed when you hover over the button with the mouse
  • A light mode image (optional)
  • A dark mode image (optional)

If you start adding toolbars and buttons in the old V7 way, there is no way to specify the name of the macro. Rhino will simply assign the name Macro plus a number to your new command. The result is that you will end up with a bunch of entries in the macro library that will look like this:

There’s no real problem with this, it works more or less OK, but I don’t like it. What I prefer:

Add all of your custom commands directly in the macro library first before you make any buttons from them. That way you can name them, and fill in all the fields, add your image(s) etc. Then, when you make your buttons, just reference the already existing macro while in the wizard. It’s a bit more work, but the bookeeping/organization gain is worth it IMO.

Also, I recommend against copying buttons and modifying them to create a different tool. Instead, copy the macro and modify that, then reference the modified macro with the new button.
In short, do all your work first in the macro library.

Yes - EXTREMELY important. There is no longer an .rui file to back up. All of your stuff is now in the settings folder: C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\8.0\settings

For me, this actually makes things easier. Backing up the settings folder (copying it elsewhere) basically backs up all of your settings. EXCEPT - if you have a custom .rui. You will need decide where you are going to store it and back up separately.

It also makes transferring settings from one install to another actually easier. Instead of going through OptionsExport/OptionsImport, I just copy the entire settings folder over from one computer to another.

The note you saw in the WIKI regarding V8 settings transfer was actually from me. I still haven’t gotten around to editing that page, and again, the info above is unofficial as I am not McNeel.
OK, this is getting rather long. I hope it gives you some idea of how things actually work.

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@Helvetosaur Thank you very much for your time ! I didn’T even noticed you were not from McNeel team ahah, they should hire you!

I will take time to try all of this you proposed!
but what it is more clear is :

  • in R8, now I will try to work with the default toolbar, So I wont have to butter anymore with .Rui files. And As I understand evrything will be saved on the fly in the .xml file. So by cloning this file I will have a backup of all my settings including : toolbars, aliases, shortcut. (for macros I will dig a bit more)

Regards
CC

The thing to clone/backup is the entire settings folder, not just the .xml.

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One more question @Helvetosaur, does this settings-Scheme__Default.xml file also contain all your default settings of Rhino, shortcuts, shortkey, preferences, views configs, etc ?

If yes, that mean we can conclude that this .xml file (+ the settings folder lets say), is now the only thing we need to transfer/migrate/back up all of our Rhino configuration. (Of course except scripts, templates and plugins to re-install).

Is it that simple in the end?

thanks
CC

You will need the settings-Scheme__Default file as well as the Scheme__Default folder. I think the window_positions-Scheme__Default will also be good if you are transferring between two identical screen setups - if not I don’t think it’s a problem to copy it over anyway, the new install will probably just overwrite it. That’s why I just said copy the entire settings folder, it takes care of all three.

Yes. The difference between that and using OptionsExport / OptionsImport is the latter are more granular, OptionsImport allowing you to choose what you want to import; copying the settings folder grabs everything - basta. I’m not sure I would want to use this for upgrading to a future version though, because how settings are handled might have changed.

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@bobmcneel @user_9123125 Can we PIN this conversation somewhere? I think the info @Helvetosaur details (and the questions Charles Collin asks) are worthy of being highly visible to the group en masse.

Thx

-Alan

IIRC, this stuff is being actively worked on in the WIP…

I’m sorry @LeGaulois for your issues with V8’s toolbars. I am, as @Helvetosaur says, spending lots of time working on this stuff in the WIP.

Thank you @Helvetosaur for helping out @LeGaulois !

@CallumSykes thanks you for coming back. its appreciated. I have good faith in this software and its developper team. Would be nice to be updated on this topic.

Thanks you

CC

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