On Surface Density-Can it be avoided here?

In ship hulls, there tend to be large, regular areas that are easy to do and do not create great isocurve density. Here, the closest isocurve spacing is about two feet:

But at the ends there tend to be places that are not Rhino-friendly and produce dense surfaces.

And if the surfaces will not join with a regular matchsrf, and when refine match is required to get them to join, the complexity surges. (EdgeSrf here, NetworkSrf actually produces a simpler surface.)

As you try to close the final gaps and have to match the dense surfaces, you get even denser surfaces.

One can rebuild to get something simpler:

But Matchsrf puts it right back where the closest isocurves are a fraction of an inch apart.

Is this just the nature of the beast or is there some way to lessen the complexity as one comes to the ends?

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post a file please.

guessing:
untrimmed edges match nicer then trimmed edges.
surfaces with weight / circular / Degree 2 are also not nice for matching.

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I assume by isocurve density you are actually concerned about control point density.

The number of control points in the results of EdgeSrf in each direction is determined by the degree of the curves on opposite sides in the direction, and their number of control points/spans of the curves, and the knot spacing if not uniform. The basic rule for degrees is each direction will be the degree of the higher degree edge in that direction. So if the edges in the u direction are degree 3 and degree 5 the surface will be degree 5 in that direction. The rules for number of control points are more complicated but can be summarized as the minimum number results when of control points when opposite edges are the same degree, have the same number of spans/control points and if non-uniform have the same knot spacing. Different degrees, number of spans/control points and/or knot spacing will increase the number of control points with a few exceptions.

The number of control points in the results of MatchSrf depend on the tolerances and the shape of the input curves. Tighter tolerances and greater variation in the shape of the input curves results in more control points.

Keys to reducing control point complexity of complex models are using a larger tolerance which will produce results which meet requirements, the modeling strategy both overall and in complex areas, and simplifying curves and surfaces where possible while maintaining the desired accuracy at every step of model creation and editing.

Attempting to match every offset of a boat or ship almost always leads to complex models, sometimes very complex models. The reality is the physical boat/ship almost certainly did not match every offset when built. Some enthusiasts might be surprised at how large the deviation can be. Whether the added complexity of matching every offset is worthwhile depends on the use of the model and the desires of the modeler.

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I’ll try to put something together. All are untrimmed. All are degree three. There are some circular/arc bends.

What I am trying to do here is an enlarged section for a detailed rending. In the large, I was able to omit some of the detail as it was unnoticeable.

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Here is an illustration. Curve appear to cause complexity to escalate. Here I have three tangent surfaces:

I have broken them down in different ways.

The come out with different levels of complexity:

Splitting things up around curves appears to simply things. I have the feeling that al; that subdivision will cause problems down the road.

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It does make intuitive sense to keep things simple for Rhno.

Breaking a section into two spans, for example, could avoid seeming to ask Rhino to try to figure out how a flare of bow curve above the waterline relates to the curve of the bulbous bow.*

*for non-naval architects: it’s unrelated, so making that as clear as possible to the surface calculation seems like a good thing.

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I don’t think it has anything to do with “Rhino-friendly” or not. Rhino is enabling you to do things to surfaces that alot of other CAD’s simply can’t do.

What aren’t you liking about the isocurve “densities”? The lack of homogeneousness? You can possibly just match the edges in such a way that they’re not so ‘refined’. But you should also consider the results caused from what they’re being matched to.

It is a bit strange that the density would increase as shown above, in cases where the density seems to increase alot relative to the adjacent surfaces. I’m wondering if your object property density is 1:1 or not – on each entity.

Why match so ‘tightly’? Are you dealing with ‘naked edges’ that wont go away? Have you tried the ‘rebuildedges’ command to find out if your edges are clean?

What degree srf’s/crv’s are you matching too? etc…

I’m not understanding what you mean to be ‘tangent’ here.

These all look almost to be ‘planar’ and could be much less dense than they look here. Are you not wanting a single ‘trimmed’ surface?

",What aren’t you liking about the isocurve “densities”? "

When I post examples here, folks say density is a problem.

"Why match so ‘tightly’? "

I match tangency and the precision in those examples is 1/32"

"What degree srf’s/crv’s are you matching too? "

All 3d degree.

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Yeah, many folks here like degree 5 srf’s trimmed to oblivion :sweat_smile: jk.

Idk, they do amazing things with deg 5’s.

I personally don’t think there’s a problem with density unless it’s used inefficiently or obstructing the ability to transform something, but managing the density is all that’s necessary depending on the situation. You just have to know how to work with it when the situation arises to adapt it or change it. etc.

0.03125" is a large tolerance from a ‘machinist’ perspective. The densities issue I’m seeing would make more sense to me if you were trying to get say 0.0001" tightnesses.

Hence:

:beers:

I mostly use deg 3. Only recently am I considering deg 5 cause the fancy stuff I see ppl doing here.

But I think it’s more of a short cut to avoid higher density degree 3’s, which I think are fine – imo.

If the network srf tools were more ‘friendly’ with deg 5, then I’d probably started using higher degrees along time ago. But I’m pretty sure ‘netwrksrf’ turns everything into deg 3 … hence, why I mostly use deg 3 :face_holding_back_tears:

On an old ship, I only have 1/16" precision for most measurements. I tend to use 1/32, 1/64, 1/128 or 1/256 as the precisions.

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Without seeing an uploaded sample or something, it’s hard to speculate, but there’s definitely nothing wrong with rebuilding the surface to something that is still within tolerance.

‘Rebuilding’ is a common part of most of my workflows. I usually prefer homogeneous isocurve density, but it all depends on what’s necessary for the job at the time.

Sometimes fitting a surface really tight is inevitable if you want the single surface to conform to other adjacent geometry.

For example: (sweep 2 rail) Modeling Problem/question - #16 by lander

But depending on the ‘rules’ those situations are also capable of being mitigated with further design revisions – if necessary.