New UI: too much padding now and heavy handed expand arrows

hi @DanBayn, all,

That’s a great idea, this implementation would use less of the vertical screen space (more limited and valuable) than having the tabs on a horizontal orientation.

Speaking of valuable vertical pixel space… can we please get rid of Rhino’s Pixel Wasteland?

  1. this Pixel Wasteland needs to go away

  2. Every time we place anything on the top it insists to grab the full width:

  3. This is what we really need:

I’m pretty sure that if we get 30 likes, this will get shipped in V8. So if you like it, please hit the like, subscribe, and follow buttons.




Hi Gustavo -

Set Rhino.Options.Advanced.UseEntireWidthForTopBand to false and restart Rhino.


oooh!!! it’s already there in V8, awesome, yup, it works here…




I’ve added these to RH-67353 Docked panel containers don’t have properties for tab positions

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hi @Gijs, @wim and team,

I checked on that setting too quickly the other day, and I missed one big problem: You are also forcing my left-side toolbar to go all the way to the top. That’s not good.

This current compromised solution requires more user-generated workarounds, like adding a bunch of dummy buttons or a dummy toolbar up there. Fine workaround for one person, but not fine for a shared/teamwide workspace, which is what I’ve e been hoping for over 15 years now, and there seem always to be impediments making this practical, and viable.




I agree, after I tried that I reverted it back too. As for the new UI in general, see also what I wrote here.

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I’m always puzzled by looking at, and experiencing, all this work done by developers, that despite their best intentions, every time I test the stuff I think: “ugh… they just don’t even know what they don’t know.”

The saddest part? For everything that I report here there are 99 other weird, glitchy, undesigned things that I (and everyone else) experience every day.

I struggle to think that this is the best way to develop software. It works for ‘the abhorrent’, because we will stop working, billing, producing and start giving a freebie to McNeel to make sure it goes away ASAP, like this example above. But the problem is that unless something is absolutely horrible I just can’t afford the time, effort, energy, cost, focus, to show what’s wrong,

The result of this: most of what they develop is ‘barely above abhorrent’. There’s HAS to be a better way, right?



Users don’t code and coders don’t use. The problem is universal.

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Call me old school, but I tend to think that coders and users should not be the ones doing design. As a designer, I can tell you this problem is widespread but is not universal, it’s only prevalent in companies that do not grasp this reality, or even if they do in principle, they do not invest in design, or they do so poorly.



Although I do support the efforts here to improve Rhino 8, your “Pixel Wasteland” can still be put to good use even in prior versions of Rhino. For example, I park my selection filters there:

I think you should also be able to put something next to the command line, but then it clips off text in the command line itself:

I also found it a bit uncomfortable, it should remain an option to dock them close to the screen edge ( BTW right now there is too little padding between panel icons and the screen edge :wink: ), but I would like to try docking them on the viewport side.
Panel icons are arranged that way in Blender and I think their position is comfortable, and padding amounts are just right.

You can find some similarities between Rhino and Blender UI in that area, because of the higher contrast in Blender some good things are more emphasized - fortunately, that can probably be solved by custom Rhino UI colors.

Problem is that if I increase contrast, all the irregularities in the UI start to really show and look ridiculous.

This padding is like that since multiple versions of WIP, honestly, I can’t stand it and I’m starting to worry that it will stay this way. Top of the letters is almost touching the window bar (bright area). Please center the menus vertically.



Hi Andrew -

Added as RH-74327 UI Appearance: Menu items not centered vertically

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The viewport pane borders are 16px wide on my 4K screen (225% display scaling)
The .... bars are 24px wide.
IMO they should both be like half that.


I agree that the resizing bars are too thick.


Hi Andrew -

Apparently (see the discussion in RH-74327 UI Appearance: Menu items not centered vertically), the text is actually centered vertically. Something in the “framework down in the bowels of MFC” is adding a single pixel at the bottom that is not really part of the menu bar and is being painted in the same color because other users complained about the interface being too noisy. When, as in your case, you have a limited number of pixels for the menu bar (you appear to have 18, whereas I have 24 and this is the result of your DPI setting and your system font), that single pixel creates the illusion that the menu text is “very” off-center.
The developer is not sure that forcing the text a pixel down is the right thing to do here.

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since i guess this concept isn’t in everyones’ consciousness yet it seems

maybe seeing is believing, notice ( menu bar ):

hb we make the menu bar movable and resize able …

imagine how much shorter together all them mouse movements could be …

not to mention less deadspace …

i love that rhino is being bone shaken currently. it is really painful to work in the wip but it might end up somewhere better than before… i really hope.

rhino currently feels like its running after blender, i really dont like it that much… but i have patience.

can we get rid of all the distractive clutter? maybe alt shift click if you want to drag a part of rhino around, but having all these extra buttons and spaces feels like lego… not that i hate lego but i think we could also grow up a bit more.

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