ARM you ready to Jump? - Part II

Nope, non of its clear, from an end user point of view its all very muddy and uncertain 🤷

And from a commercial point of view, why would McNeel now want to spend the next 2 years developing a V8 version for intel based Macs ? Surely just focus on Apple Silicon version from this point forwards

that’s not a very committed comment, and gives no confidence in a Mac version of Rhino :weary:

That is because

You seem to not read the other bits that I quoted, like “We’re working on a silicon based…” and “Several devs have purchased silicon Macs…”.

Since there is quite a bit of work to be done, and there are currently many unknowns, for sure with the code I am responsible for, that is all we can say for sure.

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thanks Steve, i appreciate your efforts and responsiveness even if it does not harvest a lot of news. just dont let us down, we are eagerly hoping for some progress.

that at least does not sound so fatal as nathan described it.

@nathanletwory your contribution was indeed lacking in some obvious commitment, or at least it very much seemed so also to me…, yes there is nothing new you can report ok, but choose words wisely, you can kill some one with those lines. at least i hope you wording was just chosen a little unfortunate :wink:

@milezee thanks for your heartblood, i dont feel so alone anymore!!!


The discussion is focused on Apple Silicon M1 chips, but, with latest news, we can see more ARM-based computers not only Apple Mac side, but also Windows side. Actually a lot of things are going to change with .NET 5.0 and we can expect more with .NET 6.0, which will be released within 2021.

Actually I am really excited about .NET 6.0 and cross-platform native ui, which is called MAUI. If I understand correctly, developers will write and build same code for all different platforms and the user interface will be cross-platform native UI. The transition for ARM may be easier than we think.

I would like to share a link about .NET 5.0 and .NET 6.0

From 6:05 To 7:55

And MAUI, according to github page, MAUI for macOS will be developed by Microsoft.

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MAUI is not out for another year according the page, and that with .NET 6. We’re still trying to figure out when to move to .NET 5.

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a very substantial compendium summing up history and strategy

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thanks for the input @rhino4u. maybe skipping .net 5.0 and jumping to the last iteration would make more sense @nathanletwory @stevebaer ?

also @rhino4u be sure to check out the first part of this discussion linked in the first post. it contains some thoughts about mac and windows, i assume that ARM could serve as a chance to grow everything tighter together.

Thanks encephalon! That was interesting!


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It turns out that we do have to wait until .NET 6 as some of the required features we need did not make it into .NET 5

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I’m really looking forward to build my .net core desktop apps with an official multiplatform gui framework. Still any transistion is related to work. Even this obvious small migration step from .net framework to .net core was quite an effort for my projects.

My impression (and I earn my daily money with .net core) is that there is currently an aggressive marketing going on in the tech industry. Just as Apple or any other companies, all these fancy statistics are presented in a very misleading way.

1.5 .Net Core developers? What do they tell me with that? Most of them downloaded Visual Studio or VSCode once and opened a .net core app. This is especially easy now with just running a simple command. Are you already an developer by doing this? And how they make sure that if I download VSCode on my private machine, that I’m the same developer?

Most loved? Its a great environment, no doubt. But if can’t do embedded stuff with it, what does it help me? Its a tool out of many!

Top30 is easy if you know that web fullstack apps and their libraries are the most common programming tasks. Many fullstack libraries are so easy, that’s almost a shame of using them.

Top5 language. Great, its indeed one of the best out there (my oppinion), but honestly I never encountered a bad language. Is German a better language than Japanese? It depends on place of birth obviously … :slight_smile:

7x faster than Node.js? Comparing techs performance is always tricky and depends on the measurement. Furthermore the ecosystem and a bad developer can turn this advantage quickly into the opposite. By the way I’ve heard similar claims from node.js.

40% new are students. Is this good?

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I wanted to focus on cross-platform native UI and one .NET platform. I have been developing UI with WPF, XAML and MVVM design pattern and I really love the idea that we can code for Android, IOS, mac and windows with the same code and with the same coding style. I think this idea is quite promising.

I can’t expect McNeel to make any promises at this point because, I expect that they are in the same boat we all are: no one know what is happening.

The reality is the x86 chips had an architecture design team with guys named Larry, Curly, Mo, Shemp, and Joe. It was already heading to an architectural dead end when IBM chose it for the PeeCee. It was bewildering in its complexity, especially compared to contemporaries like the 68000 and VAX.

We are not hitting a time when there is going to be a major change in how computer operate. Enuchs and Windozes are disk operating systems. We are entering an age where virtual memory is likely to go away entirely What will computer architectures look like without virtual memory?

The choke point in every PeeCee is the system bus (designed by Intel). You can spend hundreds of dollars on CPU “upgrades” when you buy a computer that will do almost nothing for performance and whose sole purpose is to funnel mo’ money to Intel.

We all know that eventually we are all going to be off the x86. Apple is moving first. I would expect to see companies like Dell (and even AMD) to be looking into the switch.

McNeel an Rhino will make the move in due time. In the mean time, I am going to continue to use my Intel-based Mac with Rhino and not worry about a transition that is going to take place years down the road.

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but how old is that thing? mine is from 2013, which i bought last year 2nd hand. i was specifically looking for one which is powerful enough yet quiet, since i hated these models from 2014 upwards which i all tested, howling up its coolers when you just move a brush stroke there and back or similar. sure they were faster but i am very sensitive on my ears, loud cooling system wrecks my concentration :speak_no_evil:

at some point all the new software which is already being pushed out from all sides will desire a new computer to take full advantage of the fancy pancy new tech stuff, and waiting is just not getting better the later it gets.

honestly i am already thinking about just getting a mac mini, adobe stuff will run, final cut will run, also quite a few 3d apps will run. but keeping my old laptop around just for the sake of my application nr1 is just a bit of a frowner… (not so much a critique now)

I had a 2020 17" Pro that I used until last year when the keyboard fell apart and I could not get it replaced. The only I am using now has broken down twice already with 2 screen replacements and one keyboard replacement and another keyboard replacement coming down the pipe.

In this link, there is an information as follows;

ARM64 apps are fully supported in our Windows SDK and Visual Studio 2017 onwards, and we encourage our developers to recompile their apps for ARM64.

So, I would like to ask developers if this is possible to recompile Rhino for ARM64? If it is possible there will be a Windows 10 Arm64 version of Rhino.

Possible, but also not something we are actively working on at the moment. The vast majority of Windows computers out there are not running on ARM. We keep an eye on this, but really nothing more at this point in time.

It should also be pointed out that even if an ARM version of Rhino existed for Windows, none of the major 3rd party C++ based plug-in would work without forcing the plug-in developer to release a new version. This would not be something we have control over.

More like devils with pitchforks dressed like innocent monks in a tower. A tower that’s floating over a pool of hot boiling bitumen. I wouldn’t trust Apple with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

is this also true for already existing mac plug ins?

That is separate from the question of Windows for ARM64. Mac plug-ins are .NET mostly which should work just fine. Those plug-ins that use native libraries they P/Invoke into will need to recompile and rerelease a ARM-based version for Mac.