ARM you ready to Jump? - Part II

Most of the Apple users may already have noticed the Wind Of Change, regarding processing power and the OS. Following up on the last Thread Future of Rhino - ARM you ready to Jump? to keep a better overview, I decided to open a new topic hoping to gain a bit Feedback from the Developers and what they have concluded so far.

I am reading more and more that the performance for PRO applications would only then thrive when the the new architecture is being actually taken serious - and will be adapted properly due to significant differences in the core setup, something which seems a big advantage actually.

Of course Apple is making the transition easy for those who want to avoid immediate stress and for those having simple apps it may not be a big turn generally, but for all those relying on Pro Apps and actual performance and from my understanding Rhino for Mac has a pretty patchy and complex structure if Rhino not all together, I am assuming that all that may have become something like a Hiobs Message (probably called Job’s Message ironically)

Am I or anybody hoping to have a lightning fast Rhino being unrealistic wishing for a State of the Art Rhino, with METAL and ARM and MULTICORE and all bells and whistles Mac OS has to offer? The first Rats in the cage like those Macbooks which will be coming this fall or this year still, most likely will not be of too much interest to us and yes we still can work on our old intel macs for a few days longer, but eventually the new stuff will be coming.

So what can you guys already say, is it going to be hell? do we have to worry? Shall we rather buy a Windows computer and give it all up, or is there anything the Mac users can help with? I know that is probably a stupid question, but I dont know how else to share the compassion I have for Rhino for Mac. But in the end I dont want to bother about it too much anymore, after more than 10 years of waiting for Rhino to even just to be on par with the Windows version, I have become a bit weary… and now something like what is happening now lets me doubt even more that we will ever be riding that wave instead of running after or paddling behind it.

I mean dont feel discouraged, but I really would like to know if there is any hope at all.

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@dan can probably shed more light on this.

I’m afraid I don’t have anything to report beyond what I’ve already stated in this topic.

hi dan, can you maybe roughly estimate when you will have a rough estimate for a rough estimate that roughly estimates a rough estimate?

Are you guys at least equally hyped and thrilled as (maybe) shocked?

Having updated to a (mint) 2013 model last year (because silent and still ok) to bridge my stone age old laptop till ARM is coming, I am sitting on needles of course as probably anybody following the tech development wanting to have some of that new stuff soon, so knowing how your development will proceed is an important deciding factor for us (or at least me)

just a short note, recent rumours are actually pointing towards a macbook pro being released soon.
guys… hell is preheating its kettles!!! mahahaha :smiley:

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Some history, thoughts, briefly talks about the positive aspect of apple forcing software developers to rewrite their apps.

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i just read/saw today that apple did a lot of work in actively helping transitioning open source applications like blender etc. @John_Brock once told me apple is munks sitting in a tower, that may not be fully correct anymore, its more like a donut now, but did anything in your relation change guys?

here in the current video at about 20:20

So far there has been one patch that addressed only some linking issues with libraries. But a full port onto ARM I haven’t seen signs of in developer.blender.org.

ARM just sold to Nvidia…

some interesting and promising news:

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hi @dan, @stevebaer, i really dont want to bee pushy, evaluating the situation will take some time obviously, but since version 7 has launched, is there any chance or lets say are you at least considering the implementation for version 8, or is there a chance that we might have to wait for version 9, or which i dont hope, is there even a chance that you will drop the mac version all together?

anything new you guys could add?

Still being investigated. No native ARM version as of yet, nor any time soon.

Also if in the future there is an ARM version of Rhino you’ll hear about it.

thanks Nathan, I am just in the mood for a new laptop (the current is from 2013). not very urgent (relatively) in any case it would be helpful to know if i should still hold my breath. i dont mind waiting a couple of month for an early ARM WIP or a bit more.

just to get that out, other companies like affinity and adobe and many more already have their stuff going, more or less to some part to be fair, but they are cooking. regarding Rhino, the only thing i hear 5 month after the “official” announcement is

:see_no_evil: :hear_no_evil: :speak_no_evil:

We try not to make promises when we don’t have a solution yet.

There’s not much more to add to what Nathan wrote. We’re working on a silicon based version, but there are several technical issues we need to figure out. We also know that the current Rhino is unstable when run on the silicon emulator. Several devs have purchased silicon Macs and can easily crash Rhino.

We don’t know when a silicon based version of Mac Rhino will be available.

I’m just thinking from a commercial point of view here. Apple has been going down the route of their own silicon for years, iPhones, iPads, its here now in the MacBooks and will soon be in iMacs etc. Within a a year or 2 all their hardware will be Apple Silicon. Couple of questions if I may

1- Are McNeel going to put time and resources developing Rhino Mac V8 (for intel based Macs)?
2- It doesn’t sound like McNeel are fully committed at the moment to create a Rhino Mac/Apple Silicon version, when will you guys make that decision of ‘yes we will’, or ‘no we won’t’ ?

It would very sad to see the Mac version of Rhino disappear so quickly after all the hard work and development in recent years :crazy_face:🤷

Not sure if these points weren’t clear enough.

Of course the first one gives you a timeline.

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Nope, non of its clear, from an end user point of view its all very muddy and uncertain 🤷

And from a commercial point of view, why would McNeel now want to spend the next 2 years developing a V8 version for intel based Macs ? Surely just focus on Apple Silicon version from this point forwards

that’s not a very committed comment, and gives no confidence in a Mac version of Rhino :weary:

That is because

You seem to not read the other bits that I quoted, like “We’re working on a silicon based…” and “Several devs have purchased silicon Macs…”.

Since there is quite a bit of work to be done, and there are currently many unknowns, for sure with the code I am responsible for, that is all we can say for sure.

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thanks Steve, i appreciate your efforts and responsiveness even if it does not harvest a lot of news. just dont let us down, we are eagerly hoping for some progress.

that at least does not sound so fatal as nathan described it.

@nathanletwory your contribution was indeed lacking in some obvious commitment, or at least it very much seemed so also to me…, yes there is nothing new you can report ok, but choose words wisely, you can kill some one with those lines. at least i hope you wording was just chosen a little unfortunate :wink:

@milezee thanks for your heartblood, i dont feel so alone anymore!!!

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The discussion is focused on Apple Silicon M1 chips, but, with latest news, we can see more ARM-based computers not only Apple Mac side, but also Windows side. Actually a lot of things are going to change with .NET 5.0 and we can expect more with .NET 6.0, which will be released within 2021.

Actually I am really excited about .NET 6.0 and cross-platform native ui, which is called MAUI. If I understand correctly, developers will write and build same code for all different platforms and the user interface will be cross-platform native UI. The transition for ARM may be easier than we think.

I would like to share a link about .NET 5.0 and .NET 6.0

From 6:05 To 7:55

And MAUI, according to github page, MAUI for macOS will be developed by Microsoft.

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