What do you expect to see in V7 before it’s ship-ready?

OMG such large numbers of programmers, I’ve never experienced that.

I remember one time I was having breakfast at WinHEC. I was sitting at a table by myself when a guy came up to me and asked me if he could sit at my table.

He was pretty nervous because he was going to be having a meeting with Microsoft. He worked at Arm and he told me that the reason that he was nervous was because Microsoft had (90?) thousand developers and his company only had 13 hundred.

I was working at Saitek at the time and there was only Owen and I. All I could think of saying was, “I can see why you might be a little intimidated”. :slight_smile:

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Oh I realize that well. My experience and knowledge about employees is when they start prefering cheap software they either freeze their growth or their salaries. You explain how much you gain but your employees’ salary is probably connect to your regional average income and not your company turnover. :wink:

I’m sure noone will complain to the boss, but perhaps not you but your employees can judge the software and be happier having the option to use different software along with Rhino.

I do not know what your company does, but having another software, even though expensive, even a single license, if you hire new or let some of your employees to learn it could boost up your company. Your client count will rise.

What I meant generally is that one should not restrict themselves (and their enployees) to a particular software just because it is cheap. There are variety of tools that work very well along with Rhino.

Regarding this, I worked for DS re-seller a while back. They are allowed to offer 75+% discounts to any license, plus there are package licenses that are at reduced price. You should consider bargaining more or changing your re-seller :wink:

Anyways, as I said, DS target large companies.

@ivelin.peychev, I think you are making a lot of assumptions that don’t apply to how we run the company, how we work and to the type of work we do. But like you said, it might be a regional/professional difference.

If you have worked enough years with industrial designers you should know that if they don’t like the tools, culture, environment, compensation, natural light of the place where they work, they just leave. There’s only a few thousand good ones in the world, and they have a lot of upward mobility. So imposing bad tools, bringing-in shitty/boring projects, paying average wages or anything else that seems tolerable in other jobs, it’s enough to make them go away.

You are right about that approach, But you are wrong about the assumptions you are making here too. The list of tools I provided you is our chosen one not because they are cheap tools, it’s because they are absolutely the best to do what we do. I’d love to hear of a better choice to any of those in that list. For what each of them do. The Rhino-Modo combo is our best example of tools that work well together. Not well integrated with each other, but the sum of their output is very good.

About a year or so ago Alias folk reached out to me to learn more about how we use the tools we use. Mostly about Rhino>Grasshopper. We are nerds, publicly so, so I can understand their interest. This person was talking from the point of view that Alias was a much superior product (obviously lived in a bubble and kept saying what things Rhino could not do, while I kept correcting by simply showing those same things working on my screen), and they genuinely thought the reason we didn’t use Alias it’s because we could not afford it. Of course what they don’t know is that in 2019, no client could pay me enough money to have me use Alias again. Even if Alias was free. It’s a shitty way to spend your days. I know because I’ve done it. And I’m not doing it again. Better surfacing? yes, in a handful of cases. Better tool? Not even close.

So you are making misinformed correlations that the price of software is in any way a reflection of its quality. This is very common in big software resellers, paid analysts and elitists cultures. This is something that I’ve never subscribed to. And I find it utterly silly, kind of laughable actually.

We have a lot of tools and software discussion in our team. Nothing we do comes ‘imposed’ by me, it’s based on what people want to do to excel at their craft, while we also excel at having the best deliverables for our clients. All our clients use Solidworks/NX/Creo/etc. They can’t care less we don’t use them. And they even tool from our files. In fact they love that we get them right and their people can’t touch them.

We had considered also bringing other solid modelers in the past. One was Creo, reason it was shut down? It’s a shitty way to spend your day. So again: this isn’t mostly about price, but about quality of life. I think NX is very good, and it sucks a lot less to use than other solid modelers. It also has great surfacing, better than Alias IMO. Is it pleasurable to use? Not even close. But we are still considering it. And you are right about the single/few seats approach and about price negotiation. All being considered.

A related challenge is that right now we cannot bring any more work, we are usually booked 1-3 months out. And we also need tools that are easily to hire/train for. Rhino is one for the best at this. Modo and Grasshopper one of the worst. Also the biggest cost of these other ‘enterprise’ tools is not licensing, but switching costs or training people to be proficient at them. It’s an interesting balancing act. For now we are staying with the tools we have, despite all my complaining here, they are quite good. I won’t be returning my Rhino licenses anytime soon.

G

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maybe this one day!



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Sorry, I did not read your post at first. It is too damn long.
Now that I did:

:man_facepalming: here you’re the one making assumptions. I am not corrupted by DS just because I worked for partner of DS. For me what is important is that the tool is worth using vs. the stress and anger it exposes you to.

That said, I think Blender is one of the best 3d modelling software out there. So are FreeCAD and OpenFOAM. All of them free and open-source. Here your assumption fails. I like Rhino because it is one of the first I learned and it was easy. I can do many things with it. Also it did help me stick to learning programming.

But, I also can say for sure that many of you do not really know the power that Catia v6 (3dexperience) has. Yes, it could be expensive, yes it is probably easier to maitain small company using Rhino. But it has concepts you cannot find anywhere currently. And McNeel are resisting to add even a small chunk of them in Rhino.

My comment about salaries was because that is how many owners of small companies think.

For the Bezier Shaper, check out CageEdit in Rhino. Not the same UI, but I think you can get it to do the same thing. The big difference is that the controller can be a NURBS curve or surface… not just a Bezier curve.

And it works on all Rhino objects include NURBS surfaces and solids.

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I think it would be awesome if there is a way to avoid the rebuilding thing using Cage Edit or Bend or Twist ( like the tolerance in OffsetSrf) to make a less destructive tool. i have a woraround using them to the control points instead of the closed object but it works in few cases only.

I think there is a Rigid option on many of the commands that might help.

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I have to say, I’m really looking forward to some sub-D commands and wouldn’t regard that development as a waste of effort at all, @cardib . In fact, it’s the main new feature I’m looking forward to.

What I think that will happen: SubD will get the lion’s share of the development time.

What I want: A better block manager, better Cycles UI responsiveness, more texture mapping options, the return of incremental save small, the OpenGL display issues fixed, multithreaded meshing on load and after operations…

…and the much faster display speed and bug squashing we were promised for V6.

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I will add to your wishes also on the dark mode UI .:grin:

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That would be an example of poorly distributed human resources. I don’t get why is it that difficult for some people to comprehend. :man_facepalming:

This is a public Rhino user forum where all users are welcome to express their opinions and wishes, regardless of what another user might think of them. To be honest, I find many of your ideas and wishes to be an

but just go on to the next post without feeling compelled to post an ad hominem remark about you. (Well, I may feel so compelled, but resist the temptation out of respect for the forum and your right to your opinion.)

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I don’t get it… it’s never going to be as good as 3ds, maya, blender, etc

Maybe. But I don’t use those. Rhino suits me as a general technical design package (my uses are mechanical design, architecture and marine modeling - all to do with cultural heritage management), and I see it occupying those fields as a jack-of-all trades rather than a high-end specialist software package like Solidworks, which I find heavy and ponderous and not at all nimble like Rhino - and I don’t need its parametric facilities or motion simulation usually. Blender just wouldn’t work for me at all. Maybe I’m at the pedestrian end of cad users because I use it as an adjunct to research rather than as a daily cad jockey, but given my preference of working within Rhino almost all the time (most of what I need is there), Sub-D is going to be great!

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You’re wrong. Look where they started and where they are now. From small plugin to widely recognized and praised software.
There’s plenty of users (myself included )who dropped AutoCad or other software for using Rhino.
With some extra time and effort they can beat Max or Illustrator. Maybe not for power users but for day-to-days users for sure.

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then why trying to rectify the attitude of somebody who did nothing else?
stop hacking into each other like little kiddies.

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Same here. We quit AutoCAD 100% in lieu of Rhino, 'cause most of what we did in AutoCAD, Rhino was doing better, faster and cheaper.

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That’s true. I dropped using AutoCAD even for the 2D work. Using almost exclusively Rhino now.

The only thing that I do miss the most is a better interoperability with DWG files for 2D export.

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