VSR end of Life-

Yeah, I was thinking of alias surface which is 13000 Euro/year. I remember that just before Autod€$k switched to subscription only, the permanent license of Alias Design was 6000 Euro (I think surface was around twice as much, but I’m not sure). But you owned the software and could use it as long as you like… or at least as long as Autodesk maintained its suthorization servers…
The wonderful, convinient world of subscriptions.

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I just wonder, what would happen if one day the servers of “McNeel” (for whatever reason) stop existing? Will Rhino be able to run forever, with no servers? I already had one case in the past where my Rhino was unable to connect to the servers due to some strange error, hence it would not start.

set it up standalone locked to one machine and it’s yours forever and there is nothing we or anyone else could do about it.

But…we have no plans on going anywhere, selling out to anyone or doing anything but doing what we do so you can do what you do. Bob has built an amazingly stable company with a very deep roster of folks who care very deeply about it and we plan to stay that way long into the future.

Rhino just celebrated it’s 25th anniversary and I can say this with utmost confidence, we are just getting started.


Funny story: We have one old laptop that still runs Rhino 5 and Tsplines; we treat it like a precious museum piece and only use it to make some SubD conversions. We know it’s a matter of time until Windows will just stop working. Windows installations self-destruct over time.



Your assessment, especially the first part is absolutely correct. The biggest driver of all of this is the market dynamic and this is exactly the case when it comes to the current state of Alias and its past present and future development. There are a lot of things that I could go over, but first and fore most; Autodesk doesn’t so much develop software as they purchase and license software. Recouping and generating revenue on IP is a huge part of their business model…and this is why Alias has barely changed since the late 1990’s. They simply will not justify rolling development costs into a program with such a small user base, especially when OEM’s will continue to spend the money that they do on it. Alias is STILL BUILT ON A UNIX FRAMEWORK! This in and of itself is not necessarily bad, but in my humble opinion it is the reason that Alias has such troubling stability issues on modern version of windows. I seriously doubt that there have been any major updates of refactors to the base code since it was bought from Wavefront.

you can see the fingerprints of this all over Alias; redundant tools in various locations throughout the interface. The interface looks like is being rendered on a Sega Genisis. Shiping every year with a broken or depreciated tools. M saves doing very simple things. For some older Alias users this is fine…they don’t want it to change, and they certainly don’t want to change the way they have worked for 20 years, The younger users especially the ones coming out of school have very little love for Alias and I frequently hear from them about How it needs to be modernized.

There is a reskin to the interface coming in 2024 and the Beta looks good and refresh…however pretty much every aspect of the workflow and interface is the same, so i don’t know what’s going on under the hood. The rumors that I hear is that the devs that have been working on Alias at Autodesk for decades want to retire, and new younger devs don’t have the background in the Unix cade base and prefer more modern coding and development environments. So basically Autodesk’s hand is being forced to have to do a ground up rebuild of Alias at some point in my opinion.

This is getting longer than I would like, but to your earlier point, the userbase for this kind of work, and specifically the Alias userbase is teeny tiny in the grand scheme of things. Autodesk market hegemony is being threatened in at least two ways. While VFX, games and entertainment software probably only account for 10% of their total rev, Blender has made their big headway in those spaces. The Candence of development and the speed that Blender introduces new features has made the Autodesk subscription model for Maya, vred, and Max look like a very poor value proposition. One dude basically developed Plasticity on his own in two years and Alias has not had a major update in decades, and young sculptors notice that. There are plenty of things I do in Rhino every day at work that my colleges simply can not do in Alias, quite frankly.

There are a lot of great people that work at Autodesk and on Alias. But I do take issue with the business practices of the company at a higher level. They can be shady and anticompetitive. They are not built for innovating great tools, but for extracting revenue growth at a certain percentage every year for the stock price.


Just bringing this post so that the developers of Rhino take notice and surprise us with similar tools in Rhino 8 or 9. :slight_smile:



Until proven otherwise…


I believe that developers are going after the needs of architects (of which I am one). Just look at the latest implementations of Rhino: a CAD increasingly aimed at architects.

Improving Blend, Fillet and Match srf is out of the question! Architects don’t need that much.
Personal impression…


Sadly, this is also my observation. Rhino literally lacks proper tools for control point manipulation. “MoveUVN” is not enough, and the rest few ones are not as good as their counterparts in Alias and VSR.

Not to mention the lack of “Explicit control” option in the major NURBS surfacing tools.

“Patch” is left unchanged since two decades ago or even more… “xNURBS” is what “Patch” should have been in modern days.

“Blend surface” even can’t create a clean surface while using the simplest possible input surface with just 2x2 control points…

Blend surface must be fixed.3dm (276.3 KB)

The good news is that Rhino 28 looks promising. :slight_smile:


Bobi, you’re absolutely right!

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