# V8 Shortcuts again? alt r suddenly not working?

**URL:** <https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/v8-shortcuts-again-alt-r-suddenly-not-working/194947>\
**Category:** Rhino for Mac\
**Tags:** mac\
**Created:** [November 15, 2024, 7:00pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/v8-shortcuts-again-alt-r-suddenly-not-working/194947 "2024-11-15T19:00:04Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 17\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![encephalon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/encephalon/32/611970_2.png) [@encephalon](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/encephalon)\
**Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:00pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/v8-shortcuts-again-alt-r-suddenly-not-working/194947/1 "2024-11-15T19:00:04Z")

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are we playing battle ship? just make as many shortcuts unusable as possible to be sure that one loses interest in working with Rhino? it is supposed to be as reliable as possible, it is an unbearable non stop pain that makes Rhino as impossible as possible instead.

after updating to the recent Rhino it decided to kick out/delete one of my Shortcuts, i used alt s,w,r,x for object display modes, all others still work just not alt r, when i try to set it again it suddenly claims that it is a shortcut used by the operating system. i never ever had such a short cut functioning in mac os as far as i can think.

i really am tired running after each short cut and reconfiguring it because somebody had a great day!? why is this so bothersome since V8? i am really sorry if that sounds harsh but who is responsible for making such a mess with it? is it me?

 ![Bildschirmfoto 2024-11-15 um 19.49.11](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/uploads/default/original/4X/a/4/5/a4505ea7dc2857f2e53616533267dc03ddbda681.png)

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**Author:** ![encephalon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/encephalon/32/611970_2.png) [@encephalon](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/encephalon)\
**Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:14pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/v8-shortcuts-again-alt-r-suddenly-not-working/194947/2 "2024-11-15T19:14:31Z")

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just some extra info, the same is happening on WIP9,

BUT

testing in V7 it still works, so please dont blame the OS for it. can somebody please finally fix Rhinos short cuts.

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**Author:** ![CallumSykes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/callumsykes/32/569341_2.png) [@CallumSykes](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/CallumSykes)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 2:51pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/v8-shortcuts-again-alt-r-suddenly-not-working/194947/4 "2024-12-10T14:51:27Z")

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> [@encephalon](#):
>
> who is responsible for making such a mess with it?

That would be me 🙂

This one is a tricky one. Shortcuts turn out to be annoyingly complex and I’d love to do a better job of this specific problem.

On mac Option + E, U and I are reserved by the OS for doing accents. You can see this is you try the shortcut in the viewport, it won’t make that maccy bonk in Rhino, but other unused shortcuts will, so of course, I notify people it’s in use by the OS.

That sounds simple, except it turns out to only be the case for en-us locales. If you change to Norwegian, then those aren’t reserved, but Option + R is. And Option + N for Japanese (IIRC).

I didn’t make checks locale dependent because a user can change locales and I can see it getting complex.

Apologies for interrupting your shortcuts @encephalon, and apologies for missing this issue.

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**Author:** ![encephalon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/encephalon/32/611970_2.png) [@encephalon](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/encephalon)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 7:10pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/v8-shortcuts-again-alt-r-suddenly-not-working/194947/5 "2024-12-10T19:10:44Z")

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> [@CallumSykes](#):
>
> it won’t make that maccy bonk in Rhino

i dont have any “bonks” i like my keys besides the mechanically engineered _quality_ sounds silent since it would keep bonking all over the place with the speed and inaccuracy i keep frantically hitting them with 😉

> [@CallumSykes](#):
>
> On mac Option + E, U and I are reserved by the OS for doing accents. You can see this is you try the shortcut in the viewport, it won’t make that maccy bonk in Rhino, but other unused shortcuts will, so of course, I notify people it’s in use by the OS.

i have an austrian keyboard, alt e does € for instance, though Rhino is set to English as a language that should not change my keyboard layout, but talking about it i have noticed that it seems to assume that i have an English keyboard when having it set to English as language, if i try to set new shortcuts i can not get some shortcuts done since i would have to find the english mapping for it, so there seems to be something off already if one can say so.

the burning question is, since it worked before and just suddenly has stopped, is there a way to have these functions back at some point? i would just prefer them working instead of being reminded what they could be used for otherwise…

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**Author:** ![CallumSykes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/callumsykes/32/569341_2.png) [@CallumSykes](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/CallumSykes)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 4:44pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/v8-shortcuts-again-alt-r-suddenly-not-working/194947/6 "2024-12-13T16:44:14Z")

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> [@encephalon](#):
>
> i dont have any “bonks” i like my keys besides the mechanically engineered _quality_ sounds silent since it would keep bonking all over the place with the speed and inaccuracy i keep frantically hitting them with 😉

😂

> [@encephalon](#):
>
> but talking about it i have noticed that it seems to assume that i have an English keyboard when having it set to English as language, if i try to set new shortcuts i can not get some shortcuts done since i would have to find the english mapping for it, so there seems to be something off already if one can say so.

Does this ticket capture this? Or do I misunderstand? If so, it’s something I want to solve, but it’s quite complex.  
[https://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-83731](https://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-83731)

> [@encephalon](#):
>
> the burning question is, since it worked before and just suddenly has stopped, is there a way to have these functions back at some point? i would just prefer them working instead of being reminded what they could be used for otherwise…

I’m not 100% satisfied with the current solution, I like the idea of doing better, but I don’t have a better idea. I would like to allow every key possible, I also don’t want users to be able to create shortcuts that don’t work.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![encephalon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/encephalon/32/611970_2.png) [@encephalon](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/encephalon)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 5:39pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/v8-shortcuts-again-alt-r-suddenly-not-working/194947/7 "2024-12-14T17:39:03Z")

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> [@CallumSykes](#):
>
> I also don’t want users to be able to create shortcuts that don’t work.

can you clarify what in your book “don’t work” means? those shortcuts that worked before dont work anymore that is for sure and it is concerning enough that Rhino is constantly being gutted to the last bone and i am not having any fun writing that, i dont want to blame you but since you have changed something that made shortcuts unusable and not configurable anymore i would really like to understand what the issue is.

shortcuts that worked in rhino before should just work again, i can not think of any operating system shortcuts one would need while working in rhino and if the user should be allowed to set that themselves and even if its changing cmd c and cmd v to do something else. also accents, special letters or however you call all these when produced with the keyboard should just work the same as any other letter either. maybe i am misunderstanding all that, some further explanation then would be neat indeed.

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**Author:** ![CallumSykes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/callumsykes/32/569341_2.png) [@CallumSykes](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/CallumSykes)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 7:24pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/v8-shortcuts-again-alt-r-suddenly-not-working/194947/8 "2024-12-14T19:24:29Z")

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> [@encephalon](#):
>
> can you clarify what in your book “don’t work” means?

Don’t work would mean, it does not fire, cannot fire. Assuming you’re on an English Keyboard, if you used Option + E as a shortcut, (which was previously possible to set) the shortcut would never be called because it doesn’t reach Rhino (as I understand it)

> [@encephalon](#):
>
> Rhino is constantly being gutted to the last bone

Is it just this? Or are other items being removed you need? I’d like to think Rhino is growing in features.

> [@encephalon](#):
>
> i dont want to blame you

It’s 100% a change I made, I stand by it.

> [@encephalon](#):
>
> i can not think of any operating system shortcuts one would need while working in rhino and if the user should be allowed to set that themselves and even if its changing cmd c and cmd v … should just work the same as any other letter either

Some shortcuts, as far as I know, I cannot override, e.g CMD + Space, CMD + Tab, if you tried to enter those, the OS Shortcut will happen before it hits the Keyboard shortcut dialog.

> [@encephalon](#):
>
> shortcuts that worked in rhino before should just work again

As I said I’d like to allow every key possible, without it being possible to create shortcuts that won’t work. If Option + R is created on a English layout, and a user switches to a Norwegian layout, shortcuts they created mysteriously wouldn’t work anymore because the OS absorbs the shortcut in that locale when it didn’t before. I don’t believe I can stop that.

As to why the Dialog accepts (for example) Option+E fine, and Rhino doesn’t? I’m assuming the Option+E is piped to the command line as a character as it is `´`

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**Author:** ![encephalon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/encephalon/32/611970_2.png) [@encephalon](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/encephalon)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 8:17pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/v8-shortcuts-again-alt-r-suddenly-not-working/194947/9 "2024-12-14T20:17:10Z")

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> [@CallumSykes](#):
>
> > [@encephalon](#):
> >
> > Rhino is constantly being gutted to the last bone
> 
> Is it just this? Or are other items being removed you need? I’d like to think Rhino is growing in features.

there were so many things removed and radically changed in v8, that people complained high and low about these not only because of the windows version but mac in specific got a real hit, rolling up all that once more is going the other direction, lets stay focused on shortcuts please.

> [@CallumSykes](#):
>
> Some shortcuts, as far as I know, I cannot override, e.g CMD + Space, CMD + Tab, if you tried to enter those, the OS Shortcut will happen before it hits the Keyboard shortcut dialog.

i am not fully convinced that this is true, if the user wishes so why not let him do so, if the system really catches fire i can always change it in the os system settings. not a reason to exclude these options.

cmd space for instance is always an option that i can turn off in the system.

 ![Bildschirmfoto 2024-12-14 um 21.05.02](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/uploads/default/original/4X/e/f/4/ef4c78c269f929a6b1195039875fc29565d00f79.png)

maybe cmd tab is trickier but maybe even that would be possible, but if that is the only one really not working full stop then i certainly could live without that.

as for alt r etc which stopped working suddenly after you have changed it not so much.

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**Author:** ![CallumSykes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/callumsykes/32/569341_2.png) [@CallumSykes](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/CallumSykes)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 8:35pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/v8-shortcuts-again-alt-r-suddenly-not-working/194947/10 "2024-12-14T20:35:08Z")

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> [@encephalon](#):
>
> lets stay focused on shortcuts please.

Fair

> [@encephalon](#):
>
> i am not fully convinced that this is true, if the user wishes so why not let him do so, if the system really catches fire i can always change it in the os system settings. not a reason to exclude these options.

I don’t exclude them explicitly, they just aren’t received, if you change them in the OS, they may work, I wasn’t aware you could change that.

> [@encephalon](#):
>
> as for alt r etc which stopped working suddenly after you have changed it not so much.

Yes, this could be a valid shortcut, under certain circumstances, i.e if your keyboard is setup in certain languages. The options I see are;

A). Prevent adding shortcuts based on current locale  
Pros : A few more more shortcuts  
Cons : Users may find shortcuts don’t work when changing keyboard layouts

B). Prevent adding shortcuts that are unusable across all locales (current implementation)  
Pros: Created shortcuts always work  
Cons: A few less shortcuts

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**Author:** ![encephalon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/encephalon/32/611970_2.png) [@encephalon](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/encephalon)\
**Post date:** [December 15, 2024, 3:21pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/v8-shortcuts-again-alt-r-suddenly-not-working/194947/11 "2024-12-15T15:21:29Z")

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> [@CallumSykes](#):
>
> Users may find shortcuts don’t work when changing keyboard layouts

i never change the keyboard layout, i have one physical keyboard and i am quite alright with the german mapping even though i write a lot of english. it would also be confusing to have a different mapping suddenly, so i am not quite getting that point.

> [@CallumSykes](#):
>
> Prevent adding shortcuts based on current locale

i would not prevent anything i am really not quite sure what you mean here  
maybe there is a confusion that involve thinking i would like to write somewhere rather than hitting shortcuts? since writing in rhino if not in some text based command invokes commands that is the right place to leave all the bells and whistles alive.

> [@CallumSykes](#):
>
> > [@encephalon](#):
> >
> > as for alt r etc which stopped working suddenly after you have changed it not so much.
> 
> Yes, this could be a valid shortcut, under certain circumstances,

since you have changed the circumstances for shortcuts that flawlessly worked before, can i expect these to be working soon again? i hope that does not come across too confrontative, but this topic just keeps growing and it does not get us anywhere…at least it does not seem so to me.

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**Author:** ![CallumSykes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/callumsykes/32/569341_2.png) [@CallumSykes](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/CallumSykes)\
**Post date:** [December 15, 2024, 4:58pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/v8-shortcuts-again-alt-r-suddenly-not-working/194947/12 "2024-12-15T16:58:29Z")

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> [@encephalon](#):
>
> since you have changed the circumstances

By circumstances I mean that as long as your keyboard layout is english, or a few others, Option+R is fine, but it is not fine on other layouts, for other users, e.g Norwegian. They’re set by Mac OS, those are circumstances out of my control

> [@encephalon](#):
>
> can i expect these to be working soon again?

I’m trying to explain why I won’t be re-enabling option+R, but I’m don’t feel like I’m doing a very good job. I’m sorry to have removed your shortcut, but I don’t want users to be able to create shortcuts that mysteriously don’t work when switching layouts.

> [@CallumSykes](#):
>
> A). Prevent adding shortcuts based on current locale  
> Pros : A few more more shortcuts  
> Cons : Users may find shortcuts don’t work when changing keyboard layouts
> 
> B). Prevent adding shortcuts that are unusable across all locales (current implementation)  
> Pros: Created shortcuts always work  
> Cons: A few less shortcuts

The above options are the only two I can see, and until I can find a good 3rd option, option B, the current implementation will remain.

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**Author:** ![encephalon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/encephalon/32/611970_2.png) [@encephalon](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/encephalon)\
**Post date:** [December 15, 2024, 6:32pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/v8-shortcuts-again-alt-r-suddenly-not-working/194947/23 "2024-12-15T18:32:43Z")

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> [@CallumSykes](#):
>
> I don’t want users to be able to create shortcuts that mysteriously don’t work when switching layouts.

why would somebody switch layouts, the different mapping would be distracting and unusable? and in which way does alt r pose a thread to anything not working in mac os? i have never used alt r for anything else, it is used for copyright in the german language ® but that only is purposeful when i want to write that, and even writing it or using ® as a shortcut should work so what exactly is the issue?

> [@CallumSykes](#):
>
> They’re set by Mac OS, those are circumstances out of my control

i think there is still some confusion going on, the system i currently use allows rhino 8 prior to the recent updates to use alt r on my keyboard, and it allows v7 to use these shortcuts, nothing that the operating system prevents or dictates. prohibiting these does not make sense, this or i am completely oblivious to the obvious reasons.

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**Author:** ![encephalon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/encephalon/32/611970_2.png) [@encephalon](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/encephalon)\
**Post date:** [December 15, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/v8-shortcuts-again-alt-r-suddenly-not-working/194947/24 "2024-12-15T18:50:23Z")

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so to be sure i switched the layout to Norwegian, in fact i am just typing in this layout, and alt r does nothing here, does not even bear any special letter so what is really happening? please just bring these short cuts back. if somebody runs into issues why ever because of frequently changing layouts dues to whatever reasons unrelated to rhino and this indeed has some weird reason that is somehow strangely enough impossible to explain then dont let everybody suffer on that.

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**Author:** ![encephalon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/encephalon/32/611970_2.png) [@encephalon](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/encephalon)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 2:22pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/v8-shortcuts-again-alt-r-suddenly-not-working/194947/25 "2024-12-20T14:22:20Z")

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@CallumSykes i also checked in others apps, ALT R is usable in any other app i tried, Rhino is the only one that does no allow it suddenly.

i feel that your decision is not a good one since the people that would switch between norwegian and german (or whatever language) and need that switch in rhino are very few if at all it just does not make sense. can you please revisit that again

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**Author:** ![CallumSykes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/callumsykes/32/569341_2.png) [@CallumSykes](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/CallumSykes)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 2:28pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/v8-shortcuts-again-alt-r-suddenly-not-working/194947/26 "2024-12-20T14:28:00Z")

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We are discussing the dead key shortcuts (option + R etc) internally and if/when there’s changes or updates I’ll mention them here.

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**Author:** ![encephalon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/encephalon/32/611970_2.png) [@encephalon](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/encephalon)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 2:29pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/v8-shortcuts-again-alt-r-suddenly-not-working/194947/27 "2024-12-20T14:29:54Z")

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holding thumbs and crossing fingers…  
i also have some more issue/requests in a new topic maybe you check it out in the meantime.

> [@Shorcuts are still a mess and getting worse](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/shorcuts-are-still-a-mess-and-getting-worse/196852):
>
> besides the shorcuts that have suddenly stopped working for no reasonable reason a few month ago and still not working like ALT R etc. , it also seems that f12 does not work at all, neither in combination nor as a sole key, i can enter it as a shortcut with no error reports but it does not execute anything. from f13 to f19 it reports that a modifier is needed which is strange, since specifically these are just blanc f keys. but they are not usable at all neither as a sole key nor as in the sugg…

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**Author:** ![CallumSykes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/callumsykes/32/569341_2.png) [@CallumSykes](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/CallumSykes)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 2:30pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/v8-shortcuts-again-alt-r-suddenly-not-working/194947/28 "2024-12-20T14:30:33Z")

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I always like to deliver good news, so I am too

> [@encephalon](#):
>
> holding thumbs and crossing fingers