Hi, I agree that a some UI change can help a lot to speed up modeling processes, I`ll find very helpful if you insert some of the Mac version triggers as hot corners to activate a command. Also I find this marking menus for v3, very interesting but it doesn´t work any more. I think that the UI its an essential part of the Rhino ADN and change in could not be very good, but adding some extra triggers, marking menus or the possibility to change from different interface States, depending on the phase or activity your doing, for example if your drafting, your interface could be only Preferences, Layers and Dimension tools, but if you want to go back to the normal UI you can access it trough a short cut, a trigger or a marking menu. I don´t know if there could be any patient issues with the marking menus.
I also think that David Rutten Grasshopper Space Bar Menu it´s great, iI think that could be a way to start.
Willem - this is very nicely put, and a great overview of the problem.
The UI as it exists is built for rhino V2, which is as you say, a much leaner program.
Since then, more and more commands and features have been stuffed into this package, and now going into v6 they are spilling out all over the place.
It’s very difficult to find all the commands and options for many features, they are not consistently laid out, many options are, as you say, "hiding in crevices"
and many features are overly complicated or poorly implemented - layouts being one, the block manager being another.
However the biggest problem is that people at mcneel don’t seem to think there is a problem…
That it’s still one of the easiest of these kind of program’s to use is because its core stuff is great.
However, increasingly all the tacked on clutter threatens to overwhelm the whole - I think there needs to be some serious housekeeping done…and I’m disappointed that its not going to be done for V6.
We think it is a big problem, just not the biggest one out of about 6,000 on the list.
I understand that you are disappointed but you would be more disappointed if we told you we were going to get to a UI overhaul for Rhino 6 and didn’t. We have to be realistic and honest with you and ourselves.
I recommend planning the overhaul now so all changes/new tools for V6 are easily adapted to the future UI.
And keep in mind that nobody wants a complete overhaul, Microsoft tried that with Windows 8 and we all know how the pro and long term users reacted to that. So I think it is mainly a matter of organizing stuff, in a more logical way, and that should always be an ongoing process in every expanding project. And updating old tools so they act in the same way as the new tools.
I would start with all surface generating tools since Rhino is mainly known as a Surface Modeler.
That makes it easy to communicate to existing customers.
So I would make all options visually available in them, like they are for NetworkSurface.
And make preview default for all those tools.
If you wonder how I would solve a specific tool then ask, and I’ll see if I can cook up a photoshop “proto”.
I agree that this is a good thing to do, but it seems like this is the ‘easy’ area. What about dealing with the mountain of commands/buttons that appeared to start this thread? I thought this was what the general complaint was; we throw a zillion user interface widgets at you which can be overwhelming, especially for someone starting with Rhino.
Yes, that is the easy part, since Bob clearly indicated that there will be no owerhaul for V6. So I saw no reason for digging into the intricate part of a modern UI. So basically what I say is: If you don’t have time to a major owerhaul then at least take time for a minor one, that will benefit many for the years to come.
And of course, if you want to discuss a full rework then I am happy to do so.
Just to be clear, we are already making minor adjustments:
The options dialog is resizable
The toolbar buttons and tabs display at corrected sizes under high DPI settings,
The material editor is getting an overhaul
preview button has been removed from the sweep1 and sweep2 dialogs
The two viewport properties dialogs have been consolidated into a single panel
Panel tabs can show just icons
CurvatureGraph controls have been cleaned up
Real time preview added to the smooth dialog
I’m sure there are plenty others that I missed and there will be plenty more minor tweaks to come.
@Holo, this wasn’t meant to ‘diss’ your comments, be defensive, or offensive. I just wanted to point out that minor UI tweaks are constantly being made in Serengeti. A major UI overhaul is not something we plan on implementing in the near future.
My feedback from trainees is as follows: Those new to Rhino find that the interface looks a little clunky and old fashioned but once they’ve spent a couple of days with the software they actually find it’s a pretty productive interface. I haven’t come across many more experienced Rhino users who perceive the interface to be a problem.
Perhaps more of a problem to users is the interface inconsistencies. One thing that bugs me big time is tool tips, menus and command names being inconsistent. Examples would be SetPt which is now Set XYZ Coordinates on the Menu and Tooltip but Set Points on the preview button - and of course it still runs the SetPt command. Geodesic Curve / Short Path is another one - but there are quite a few. It’s difficult for the new user and the trainer - seriously if there was one interface issue I was asked about more than anything it would probably be this.
There are many cases where I think bringing options out of the command line and onto a preview palette would make sense - like Jorgen is saying citing the Network Srf example. Any tool for curve or surface creation where the designer is ‘thinking’ and wants options - these are ideal candidates.
Finally one ‘selfish’ request. Why is the ‘shrink’ option not sticky in Split at Isocurve - and come to think of it why is the option needed at all - surely thats why you’d use the command rather than extracting an isocurve and trimming/splitting.
I agree, don’t waste too much time on major UI changes for V6. The make2D of meshes alone is reason enough to start selling V6 upgrades to architects
And I would change the default gray to darker gray, it i a change, better in my opinion, and more modern, and makes V6 stand out from V5. (Not mine though )
And please add a color option for the white background of the ui panels and the command line.
Perhaps, yes, but I wouldn’t go as far as just saying “all surface creation tools should have a box with options opening up” as I’m reading Jørgen’s suggestion. When I’m creating a surface from edges, all I have to do is type “ed”, hit space, click twice and hit space again. Proceed to next. No use throwing an extra dialog box in there.
And I’ve neglected to thank you for that one. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
(though, it appears to be a bit wanky still - the right hand side resizes fine but the left hand side doesn’t).
I agree with you wim, and I don’t know how this should be solved, using - before commands forces them to the commandline, so maybe that or a similar option is the solution. Maybe using + in front of command can force them to dialog…
The way I envision an improved surface UI is to have options not only for Preview (which is gone now) but also for:
Zebra, so it can be analyzed on the fly, automatically with surrounded surfces if surfedges are used.
Rebuild on all tools
Tolerance on all tools
Deviation from all curves used (Networksurf makes surfaces no matter what, and that can be a problem, as one has to manually check if the curves are perfectly placed)
Little late to this discussion, but I for one am opposed to a major UI change. I think the changes to V5 are enough to chew on for a while. The tabs were a huge improvement. If anything, maybe a new set of icons with a little more colours would add some pizzazz. By way of comparison, here is what WorkNC’s icon’s look like:
The icons in Rhino are boring compared to these, and the only difference I can tell is the use of more colour (within reason of course).
It’s an easy fix if you have the time. Here is one of my toolbars, where you can see a greater variety of colours in use:
Maybe I’m old fashioned, but I hate the new UI in most programs these days. It seems making everything seem very 2D is the rage. For example, pretty much everything in MS Office has a very flat look. Gone are the days where there were “buttons” to push and it actually looked like you pushed them. I miss those gradient icons from back in V3!
I failed to mention one more thing that came to mind regarding the UI. I found it beneficial to set up toolbars for different tasks that Rhino performs here, and them lay out the buttons to follow the general workflow. The example above is one of those related to CAM.
