This is not a yes or no question

Please Disambiguate!

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Yes it is.

-Pascal

(hidden | locked) | (block_member)

When I read that popup this is what I take it to mean.

Click yes or no to perform the block edit.

The top text informs you that if you choose yes, hidden or locked items will be removed from the block definition. Which therefore means that if you want them in the block definition, unlock or show them.

If that is correct then I do not find it ambiguous.

I may be Greek, but I can tell the grammar’s bad.

I guess the question to ask is how can a block contain hidden or locked objects if they are not supported? And should Rhino maybe change so this can be supported?

I also agree that the grammar is really bad for none-english native users like my self.

I don’t see anything wrong with the wording of this alert popup. It says exactly what it needs to say.

if a pop up needs an explanation of this length it is definitely ambiguous. Seriously. And I am a native english speaker with multiple degrees!

I think it is the use of “or” in the sentences, hidden/locked somehow makes it more legible.

Yes, remove them from the block definition for me, please.

When do you actually get that message?

–Mitch

When you try to exit the in-place block editor with geometry hidden or locked.

Do you think this discussion would have taken place if the wording wasn’t bad? :wink:

I think the “Leave and remove” sentence has no logic. One can not “Leave” and “delete” at the same time. That is NOT leaving it alone :smile: So I think it lacks some logic as it should rather be a Yes/Cancel option. Or just a “Remove hidden or locked objects from the block definition?” But then there should still be a “Cancel” option as “No” doesn’t really cover the option.

If one really want a Yes/No option then I think the wording should be more like:

" Your block now contains hidden or locked objects. These are not supported by blocks and will be deleted. Do you want to continue?"

2 Likes

Well said, Holo.
I can see how it is very confusing, ATH.
If you already know what it means, you can roll with it.
But if you are new to blocks, it is pretty bad.

I posted a bug, and included your suggested wording, which is very concise and informative IMO.
It is definitely an improvement!
Thanks for the suggestion.

Kind regards,
Mary Fugier

You can leave objects locked or hidden and remove them from the block. I don’t say it cannot be improved but the message is correct as far as I can see. ‘Delete’ does not appear.

-Pascal

So you say that the objects in the block edit that are locked or hidden will just stay locked and hidden and be excluded from the block? If so then that sounds like a strange/odd UI.

Example: If I have 10 block instances of a chair and inplaceedit one where I hide the “cushion”, then at exit I’ll get the “message” click yes, then the “cushion” will be removed from all blocks and that one “cushion” will be hidden in the one place for the one chair?

I would really prefer that Blocks could support hidden and locked objects… :smile:
-Jørgen

@mary @ATH @Holo We also need to include in this discussion objects that are both hidden and locked. Also, the objects haven’t actually been added to the block yet so saying your block contains these illegal objects is wrong. Maybe this works:

“You’ve tried to add hidden and/or locked objects to this block instance. Hidden and/or locked objects are not supported in blocks and won’t be added to this block definition. Do you want to continue?”

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Well, the message comes up in BlockEdit, If you edit a block and in the process hide or lock some of the objects that are in the block definition, these objects will be left out of the definition when you exit BlockEdit.

“Some of the objects in this block definition have been locked or hidden during editing. A block definition cannot contain locked or hidden objects.
Should Rhino Unlock and Show these objects so they can be included in the block?”

                    Yes/No

??

-Pascal

Hi Jorgen-
Not sure if I follow completely, but if, during block editing, you hide the cushion and leave it hidden, and you answer the message box with ‘Yes’ then the cushion will no longer be part of the block definition and all instances will update accordingly.

-Pascal

I still think this this statement is ambiguous:

Leave objects hidden or locked and remove them from the block definition?

It could be interpreted as giving a choice between leaving the objects hidden and locking them and removing them from the block instance which is not a binary choice, or its correct meaning.

For me, this would be much clearer if the “or” is replace with a “/” or bracketed.

Leave objects hidden/ locked and remove them from the block definition?

or

Leave objects hidden (or locked) and remove them from the block definition?