Tested just for you - WIP toolbar editing šŸ˜¬

Just to make sure this is seen where it needs to be: @bobmcneel @brian

There must be something amiss in the development process that allowed this to get so far off the right track.

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Ok, here comes my rant response, ā€˜kids these daysā€™ style.

what you just mentioned Mitch is a great example of the many jobs, trades, industries where Rhino plays so well, and it requires both: customizations created by nerds that are also trade experts, and those customized tools being used by also expert craftspeople that are not necessarily advanced computer users.

At Fresco, my design company, over the last 3 years, we have grown slowly whatā€™s now a full industrial design modelshop, and just as we have very advanced programmers and 3D modelers in our team, we also have amazing master model makers that struggle a bit with computer use. The role that Rhino plays there is crucial: we use it extensively for a lot of doctoring, fixing, completing, remodeling and modifying customersā€™ files. Letā€™s just say that the typical industrial designer/engineerā€™s 3D file these days is less than ideal to do any real work with it. So to make physical models thereā€™s tons of expert CAD work needed first. This is beyond all the work for fasteners, fixtures, paint offsets, glue traps, magnets rails and sockets, thin part reinforcements, etc.

This is all possible with scripts and plugins by folks like you Mitch, and Pascal, Dale, Dan Byan, HĆølger, Willem, Peter Harris, Rolf, Nathan, Gijs, Jarek, Daniel Piker, David Rutten, and many others.

All these amazing tools, some created now over 20 years ago, are making, an otherwise kind of ok 3D package, into one of the most powerful tools of work Iā€™ve ever used.

This style of work. This body of collective wisdom shared here over decades. This ability to make a difference and perfect a craft, needs a lot more of respect, care and focus by McNeel. You canā€™t just bury all this greatness just because thereā€™s a ton of children out there now, running Rhino on Macbooks and with no intelectual curiosity or understanding for 3D things, and want everything simpler and default.

This issue needs a serious rethink, rebuild, and re-prioritization, as soon as the ā€˜Basics for the MacBook Generationā€™ is taken care of.

Thanks for listening,

Gustavo

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I completely agree !

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6 posts were split to a new topic: OSnaps do not stay put

@clement I canā€™t repeat both of your issues here, I will if anyone has a clue what might be causing this.

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Donā€™t do this. It will eat your changes.

@Helvetosaur
You once promised to never try to edit a button again, must have been in early V3 or V4 times.
Good you broke your promise :laughing:
However the system works in the background, the user shouldnā€™t have to hassle with macros and delta files.

I remember this macro thing was once visible in V3 or V4.
But then it disappeared, and from then on it was possible to play with buttons, and it worked quite easy.

I said that? Really? :rofl:

I honestly donā€™t remember that, but it most likely was at the introduction of the whole concept of the linked macro library and workspace editor - I guess with V4?

I guess that was (and still is) because I am in the habit of copying buttons and then modifying the copies - which was already the source of a bunch of problems, some of which persist in V7, but now has become a complete nightmare in the WIP.

I started just making new buttons from scratch and importing the bitmaps which worked better, but even that is now monstrously complicated.

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I just had a similar experience, The toolbar was looking good this morning, and I saved it so it would look the same on my other computer (rui on dropbox) and then when I reopened the wip it looks like this:

(X)'s over a few of the ā€œmacrosā€ and the macros has been deleted from the library.
EDIT: It seems the macros are OK, but the svg icons are gone. Those are saved IN the toolbar/library right???

image

I hope this illustrates how terrible this is working and how counter intuitive it all is.

EDIT, is this the library? This is where I saved: (Itā€™s difficult to understand since you use words like toolbar and library on what seems to be multiple and overlapping things)

There we need a ā€œsave asā€ also, so we donā€™t have to go the OS to make duplicates and rename the copies.

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Yeahā€¦ I relinked the svg to one of the buttons and saved the toolbar/library thingo and reopened V8 and now the icon that was lost is there, but the other one is lostā€¦ (the one that was working fine on that toolbar after the previous save)
image

image

And the strangest thing is that the one icon on ā€œMake Toolsā€ that still is intact is the same one that now got lost on the LARK v8ā€¦ (Same macro linked to both toolbars, both toolbars are in the HoloHolo-v8.rui library.

And one more thing, button tooltip text doesnā€™t get updated unless you restart Rhino. At least thatā€™s what happened now.

I canā€™t believe there is no way to sync toolbars between teams or even yourself like that anymore. Every step of this new system prevents it. Copy-by-ref means quick edits are applied to the default, not your RUI. Rhino doesnā€™t save your RUI on exit. And if you manually save the RUI, it nukes the file.

But since Rhino isnā€™t saving the RUI, you can do some edits in V7 with the comparatively-easier-to-use workspace editor, then relaunch the WIP. Thatā€™s been working so far. It keeps all my SVGs associated with their macros.

And a next thing.
I configured the middle mouse button for showing the MRU toolbar.
Strange resultsā€¦


And no, I didnā€™t modify the toolbars at all.
Plain Rhino 8 default.


BTW, I like the auto pop out when only moving the mouse over a button with a triangle.
While a bit delay would be better.
And perhaps auto close on mouse leave.

Is it possible to activate the behavior for the standard toolbars as well?

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@wim and @gijs, can you give some insight in when we can rely on the toolbar save issue? That is the most pressing part.

Itā€™s kind of OK that it is difficult to do something, at least for the time being, but it is critical that we canā€™t save the toolbar in a way that gives results with out messing up previous work. Thanks!

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OK, a small update.
I just added some buttons to my toolbar and saved, and then reopened WIP. Now all other toolbar icons are gone, but the last added ones are there. So it seems the save feature just deletes the existing ones and saves only the new ones. So a bug that should be easy to fix.

you donā€™t know who JD Hill is?!

I know heā€™s a very talented rendering software creator and programmer. But I donā€™t know if he spends much of his working hours modeling, for a living, and where are his expectations when it comes to modeling efficiency l, productivity and design exploration requirements.

G

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sorry, for some reason I missed this @ mention. John is working right now on this part of the UI. I canā€™t however give you an estimate of when that will be ready.

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@Helvetosaur yesterdayā€™s WIP has some significant changes in the realm of button editing. The whole workflow of creating toolbars and workspaces is still just as bad as always, but copying, editing, and creating a new button should be much better. What do you think?

Hi Jorgen - is this still the case? Can you save changes to your toolbars?

-Pascal

Hi Charles - please run Reset and set the second option, to discard changes, then re-open Rhino - does that pop-up toolbar propblem still occur?

-Pascal