SubD feedback and possible features request

Hey there,

After doing a bit of experimenting with Sub-D commands in Rhino 7 WIP version, I’d like to add some of my personal feedback and possible features. I’m happy to see that Sub-D in Rhino is improving, but as of now, I noticed only a handful of “editing” commands like (Inset, Slide Edge, Insert Crease, Remove Crease, Slide Edge, Delete Face, Bridge SubDs, Subdivide SubD). These are great of course but in my opinion not enough to do any serious work yet.

These are some of my suggestions that I think will benefit the Sub-D tools a lot.

Add symmetry command / Remove symmetry command - both linear and radial
This is a tool that I personally use every time with T-splines when I model cars for example or anything that is symmetrical. I understand that we can use just a simple mirror command once the modeling of one side is finished, but with symmetry, you can see how your model is taking shape and you have a better understanding if there’s something that needs to be changed along the symmetry line.

Insert Edge / Insert Vertex
This is really a must for me. If I don’t have the ability to add new edges in the middle of work, this means that I would have to know in advance how many by how many faces I would need when I start my initial surface. This flexibility to add new Edges (edge loops especially) is crucial.
So how this would work in practice (t-spline example) - You just select a certain edge loop and type a command insert edge and this should create an edge that is in the midpoint of the previously selected edge loop.
Insert vertex is also something similar, but it doesn’t necessarily need to create midpoint edges, but rather an edge that is created by clicking on certain points on existing edges.

Weld points / vertices
This is also something that is crucial. Often times, I use ctrl+shift to select an edge and then use alt+drag to extrude it, then one more time and so on. Often times, while doing this process there are some vertices that get created in a single spot (meaning two or more vertices have the same exact mathematical position) and this means that if they are not “merged or welded” the surface itself would behave differently. So I’d like to have the ability to weld vertices that are on top of each other and also to connect two separate vertices and creating a nice blended surface as a result of that action.

Smooth Toggle
This is not something that is on top of my list, but I think it’s also one of the features that would benefit the overall workflow with sub-d tools. In t-splines, there is this “smooth toggle” when you press “tab” key and what it does, it actually switches the visual representation of the object from “smooth” to “low poly”, so you can work with “low poly” version the same way as you work with the “smooth” version, but it’s just much faster. When models get quite complex, this is a big timesaver.
In this example, the “low poly” option would be the yellow control points frame, and the “smooth” would be the default option that is currently active with the sub-d tools.

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Yes, I agree with these, and I have suggested to the other friends, too.

Hopefully the developers will add these thanks

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Thanks for the feedback!

This is filed as https://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-53823 as an internal report, planar is first but no prototype exists yet. Some users have used Grasshopper to get around the current limitation. I added your vote here to the request.

Filed as https://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-49860 and https://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-53954 respectively, InsertEdge and InsertPoint work on meshes now if you use ExtractControlPolygon to get the control net off the subd.

This is filed as an internal report https://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-49865 Stitch is what we’re calling it presently. Added your vote.

Thanks again!

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RH-53220 is fixed in the latest WIP

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Awesome Brian! Thanks! I’ll make sure to test these out Love the naming convention by the way!

is there a way to add point weight? is another tool to have some kind of control over “creased” edges

No. There’s not an industry standard for how to interpret point weights on SubD’s, so we’ve chosen (for now) to not support them. We don’t want to create models that are difficult to share accurately with other products.

Hey Brian,
Just tried “Crunchy” and “Creamy” commands.
They work great. I assume that the icons for these are still in development?

Another thing that I was wondering. Is there a way to assign these two commands to a single hotkey, so that once clicked it activates “crunchy” mode, and when clicked afterwards it activates “creamy” mode or would it have to be two hotkeys for each command?

Thanks!

hi
the requested command is already available: CreamyCrunchySwap
just assign a hotkey or make a button

HTH
Akash

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Which is what I’ve done - assigned the ‘HOME’ key:

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Yes, that’s what I was thinking to do, but for some reason there is no “tab” key here in the options

Smooth/Flat toggle works great in the latest WIP.

One version back, subobject selection in SubDDisplayFlat mode was buggy. Now it works very well.

One remaining issue, not sure if it’s been mentioned yet: Osnaps aren’t working correctly in SubDDisplayFlat mode. Cursor is snapping to an invisible smooth mode subD hidden beneath the flat mode displayed. For vertices, turning on control points is a fine workaround. But for edge midpoints, or near snaps, that won’t work. This functionality is more useful for editing than one might think. Clayoo has automatic mid-edge snaps in both view modes and they’re quite useful. (though rhino subD is already better at most of this than Clayoo because Rhino Gumball is far superior)

Being able to snap to vertices/edge endpoints in SubDDisplayFlat mode is particularly useful for deleting and recreating faces. Another bug related to this: in SubDDisplayFlat mode, to create a single subD face using 3Dface and have it match up with existing faces by clicking on existing vertices, you need to set the “interpolated” option to off. In smooth mode, you need to set interpolated to on to get the same result. And again, in SubDDisplayFlat mode, you can only click on the vertices by turning on control points. All of this adds up to more user clicks than necessary. Not sure how to resolve it. Clayoo has a “weld” option when creating an individual face. Perhaps Rhino should do this and call it “stitch”, for consistency?

That’s feedback. Now feature requests:

1. Edge loop selection, like Clayoo.
2. OffsetSrf, but for SubD polysurfaces. Also ExtrudeSrf for SubD polysurfaces
3. Face extrusion, with cap, spike, and open end options.
4. For Inset, add an option to autodelete the central subsurface, leaving holes, to create net-like structures quickly. Analogous to several Grashopper components that manipulate meshes.
5. The clayoo implementation of surface division and edge splitting is pretty good, and a native rhino version would probably be better. The current subdivide command is already way more stable than clayoo, but the inability to subdivide only one subsurface and the inability to pick where the division line goes and/or to do subdivisions as loops around a multiface subD are limiting.
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Hi Max - thanks, I see this.

https://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-55243

-Pascal

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Some more of my feedback on the newest release of Sub_D tools:

1. Switch Crunchy/Creamy mode for a single object
2. Fill hole type of a command
3. Stich command possibly not working
4. Insert Edge / doesn’t go close to the end of the end vertex
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Hi @Dusancv
Apparently you are not following the correct steps to use stitch command.
You need to select one side point or edge, confirm, and then select the other side.
If you select pairs of points of one side and the other it will not work.

HTH,
Joaquín

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@dusancv

For filling holes of SubD, the Rhino command Fill works perfectly… or bridge by selecting two opposite edges…

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I use the latest WIP, and _Fill command (no icon, but keyboard entry) works perfectly, by asking edges of subd to fill….
Are you using V7 7.0.19295.11595?

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Try this to add the icon: _Fill command not on toolbars or command list

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Hi,
After doing some tests with SubD in Rhino WIP I found that the stitch command generates an edge like a crease when I use it on open edge vertices.

In another case, if the two viertices are not connected by an edge, the stitch command returne “Stitching result not valid”. Is this correct?

Rhino WIP 7.0.19302

Test1.3dm (187.2 KB) Test2.3dm (77.3 KB)

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Apologies on the late reply, thanks for the reports. I filed the invalid result one as https://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-56343 and the unwanted creased edge as https://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-56340