Selling NURBS models

→ Isolate objects?
http://wiki.mcneel.com/people/pascalgolay

Yeah that`s the one, thanks. Had it installed but wasnt using… dont remember why, seems to be working fine now.

What does this do exactly? Have you tried v5’s Align command? It is a little different from V4. Or is ‘Align to’ something altogether different?

In V6, you’ll be able to create a custom CPlane from a gumball, so this may become at least easier, if not automatic. But, I think what you are saying is that any command asking for an origin of some kind like Rotate, Scale, etc should have a GumballOrigin command line option for this point, is that correct?

thanks,

-Pascal

Hi Pascal.

The way its implemented in Rhino5, Align command uses cplane as a reference for top/bottom/left/right, and thats fine in ortho views, but in perspective with default top cplane there`s no logic to it, imho.

Max uses world coordinates for alignment, thats the major difference I guess. Next one is - its using object boundaies, not exact points. So if you have a complex mesh youre not really sure where to snap to and you have to find workarounds, instead of just clicking “align bottom of this box to the top of that sphere”. I hope thats clear enough, Im horrible with making my point clear :slight_smile:

As for the gumball, nah I was talking more about a visual way to operate things. Right now you`re able to rotate with gumball and it is set to an object center. So I mean the ability to move it off of there, snapping to somwhere else, for example to a point I need to rotate around. This can be implemented as a toggle for the gumball right mouse menu for example.

View coordinates that is… its easier to see I guess, here`s a screenshot.

Hi Tool- I’m not sure if this is exactly what you want but check the RelocateGumball command (handy to have on a shortcut key or alias). Snap to any location + to reset the origin without reorienting the gumball, or set all three points to change orientation as well. Note custom gumball locations are saved in the file for top level objects but not for multiple selections or groups or control points. Also, if Ctrl is down when you start to manilpulate the gumball, it will only change the control itself, not the objects- that is a sort of shortcut for RelocateGumball.

Does that help at all?

-Pascal

Yeah, I see- this is a little like SetPt maybe but it acts on the selection and some point on that. BoxEdit is also ‘partly’ like this.

thanks,

-Pascal

Oh nice yeah that`s exactly what I mean, even more than that.
thanks!

Hi Andy,

As for texture development I guess Ill try to articulate some of the issues that are deal breakers for me without being a negative nancy. I love me some rhino, for shape making, but for Vis work I currently feel the need to both model and texture in 3ds.

  1. Maybe the biggest, topological flow. If My NURB surface spits out a crazy triangulated mesh with a chaotic, unpredictable , or nonsensical arrangement then I have already hit the biggest burier to a usable UVW mapping workflow. In the absence of a logical mesh flow there is no way to move verts/sets of verts ( for UVW mapping purposes) to rectify mapping problems and warping. If the mesh doesn’t make sense (ie. pretty much quads that are organized according to the flow of the shape) then moving verts around cant really solve any problems. I don’t know if this is something that can even be addressed in a nurbs to mesh conversion. Essentially, when your seriously concerned about texturing the flow of the mesh is all important, and may even be a primary driver in the mesh flow decisions made during modelling. Currently in Rhino zero percent of this is addressed. I’m not faulting you guys for that, if I were an engineer it wouldn’t matter to me, my shapes would be precise and tolerances would be on. However for Vis, its a primary consideration.

  2. Lack of tools (which in the face of mesh flow is really putting the chicken before the egg anyway). Pelt mapping, mesh relaxation ect., realtime coordination between Veiwport and texturing window selection and seams and vert changes. In complex UVW mapping these tools are essential.

For a good indication of what this all adds up to I would recomend watching this small 10 part series on UVW unwrapping in max. Perhaps your already aware of all this stuff. But, if your really looking into improving and expanding the texturing aspect of Rhino then this will give you a good idea of what tools and processes are essential to all that. Again not suggesting you need to replicate this work flow/interface/tool set, but the series (1 hour total) will really give you a very good idea of all that is involved (missing from Rhino) in more complex texturing.

  1. Have to agree a node based system for shading and texturing would be a giant leap for those who use Vray with Rhino, giant. So many aspects of working with Vray and Rhino are just needlessly frustrating to the point of nearly unusable (especially if you know what the alternatives offer, and have the option).

This may be barking up the wrong tree, and perhaps the Vray guys are the ones to address these issues. drag and drop between map slots and other settings seems like a no-brainier. The need to see the texture of the mapping channel that you are currently trying to map is a necessity when using Vray ( this can currently be achieved through tedious workarounds that sometimes work, and many times bug out). Connection between environment settings and the view-port allowing you to see HDR mapping would be a big leap.

Okay, thanks for the opportunity to contribute my input. Again, not trying to be down on Rhino because what it does it does amazingly well for the most part (still got to get fillets 100% :P), and I really love it. But, these are the missing features which essential don’t really allow me to use it for the most part since for me Vis is the end goal, not mechanical. If these issues didn’t exist I would uninstall 3ds tomorrow and never look back.

okay thanks again, hope that is constructive feedback.

  1. OK - thanks. We’re looking into this. Would something like “Remesh” in Blender help?

http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Ref/Release_Notes/2.62/Remesh_Modifier

  1. Yes - I see that. I think that will come - but you’re right, the crazy meshes probably need to be addressed first.

  2. We could, of course, implement a node based shader system, but then every renderer would have to implement it. My guess is that it won’t happen. If you want a node editor for VRay, I think you’ll have to ask Chaosgroup. Other UI issues like drag and drop between map slots - again, you need Chaosgroup to do that - or get them to support the Rhino material editor (which does support that). Connection between HDR and viewport is also VRay - RhinoRenderer and Brazil both support that natively.

Hi Andy,

  1. Some of those examples look promising, the remeshing of the letters at the bottom of the pager is a vast improvement for sure. At low resolution some of those would be okay for UVW, but the higher resolution examples still look intimidating, like the cone for example. But yes, certainly an improvement.

  2. That’s what I figured. Wrong tree.

Thanks for looking at my feed back. Also, I think I forgot to include one major piece of feedback, maybe more of a wish list.

It would be great to just have a more usable mesh workflow in Rhino. Mesh tools are currently targeted almost exclusively at meshing and remeshing. Rhino could be an excellent mesh modelling environment as well given the power of the transform tools, but currently free form mesh modelling is just not viable given the lack of mesh specific tools and mesh modelling workflow implementation/considerations. Actually, many times I use tsplines just as a mesh modelling kind of plugin, and leave the smoothing off. Many of the Tsplines features allow for a usable mesh modelling workflow and I find that really valuable. These meshes are then perfect for going into any other application for subD or what have you. Maybe its just me and my workflow but that stuff is all very valuable, and allows me to stay in Rhino longer, where I prefer to model.

Anyhow, just a wish.

Thanks again

Let me throw a quick comment on part 3)

Youre totally right Andy, and thats why Ive suggested implementing a nodal framework, in a way that every 3rd party renderer has to use it. Its done like that in each major modelling app - a wide selection of renderers all using same core shading UI.

The trouble is that most renderers consider their proprietary shaders to be a key part of their feature set.

Yup - I’m not sure why they chose a cone, because that’s a very hard shape to mesh with only quads. Certainly their method doesn’t lend itself well to the cone problem.

I was talking only about the UI, a single shading node based UI.
Why invent the wheel? Its done like that in each and every app out there.

OK - sorry, I misunderstood.

Could you guys elaborate on the “node based UI”?

I have no hands-on experience with all the good stuff. Vis for me comes only after tech. So I’m pretty much lockend on tools not really good for UVW and texturing.
Could Grasshopper be a way to go? I did develop Scarab for Maxwell Render some time ago to make material editing more flexible. Currently I am trying to extend it to texture mapping and other renders, such as VRay. Migth this be, what you are talking about?

I`m not familiar with grasshoper nor maxwell, so cant comment on that.

As for my point on UI, I think its best to illustrate my point with just another screenshot, this time from XSI. Heres an example of a pretty complex material which would be almost unmanagable with no nodes. In short, its about managing, compositing and layering multiple procedurals and rasters to different shader inputs (i.e. diffuse, bump, reflect etc.). Probably more experienced guys could give a better description.

continuing in another thread

Hi

If My NURB surface spits out a crazy triangulated mesh

Do you have a NURBS surface handy that does this?

  • Andy