Rhino very slow on M1 Mac

Thank you. I just downloaded Rhino WIP. I only have a trial version for next 90 days on Rhino 7. How would `I be able to run Rhino WIP. is there a trial version of that if you don’t own a licence yet?, do I need to buy a licence for Rhino 7? - this would off course not really work for me.

No.
Participation in the Work-In-Progress requires you own a purchased permanent license.
Sorry.

Well, off course I am stating the obvious and I will try it again. Is there a way I can buy a Licence that eventually also works for Rhino 8 (which will work for M1Pro) Its not really attractive for me to pay that amount of money just fort a beta version and then pay again if it releases. Is there a way we can work this out? Thank you

No. Only the current Version licenses are available for purchase.
When V8 is released, if you choose to buy it, you can upgrade your previous version license for roughly half the price of a new license.

Dear Wim,Dear John

I dont know if you are the right person to address, so please, if necessary, forward this to the right person.
I am very frustrated, as `i have described in our conversation

Recab: My situation is as follows, I use Rhino sporadically for creating concepts, planning exhibitions and making cutting files.
After some years of working on my old `Windows computer. knowing my next computer was going to be a Mac again, I finally wanted to make the professional move to Buy a rhino License, which I wanted to buy once I had my MacBook.

As you can read from the conversation, there is no real solution for my situation.
I could buy a Rhino 7 License, which I can not work with on the current Macbook Pro M1 OS Monterey, and use the Beta version untill the license is there, in which case I need to buy an upgrade. This is alot of money at this time, and I really do need Rhino for my projects. But this doesnt work for me at all. I cant pay money for a license that runs a program that does not work on my computer, untill it does, in which moment I need to buy an upgrade for 500 Euros.

Please help me out, I am very much willing to buy a license for a functioning program, or even a beta version, as long as I also get a license when it will be truly running.
Is there a way I can Pay for the Rhino 8 License already? Or maybe get a discount the amount of the upgrade price? until I buy the upgrade…so I use the Beta version and upgrade it when its out? Just tyrying to find some reasonable solutions here.

If this is not possible it would be very unfortunate, I will need to start looking for another program, which will never come close, but there is no alternative for me except for spending an unfair amount of money for a program that you as a company even see as problematic on the new Macs M1 Pro Silicone, and then even hoping your beta version even works well enough. I hope you or people in your company can find a solution for this situation, or create a customized alternative for the people in this situation

Thank you,

Your program is the best, otherwise wouldn’t be writing you.

Best regards,

Ivan

i think that is actually a valid point. that one currently can not buy a recent mac for recent software without either having to buy/keep an old computer additionally which would not run recent software forcing you to either have 2 computers or pay double licences in that case.

it is a transitional situation which is asking for a transitional licence solution. McNeel could have been maybe more aware of the imminent transition which they were alerted to more than 3 years ago in this dedicated topic where they fended off all claims that much work would be needed. :man_shrugging: that rather infuriating fact aside since it is also not entirely their fault and i am not sure if they even could have prepared for it better or not, but now 20 month after the first official release of Apple SOC there are only intermittent solutions… so as confrontative as it may sound, it certainly is a valid question who shall pay?

this or V7 on Apple Silicon gets at least performance wise on par with the current intel macs… soon.

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Yes it probably sucks to pay a full price just for a WIP version of Rhino, but taking into consideration that it will probably be a long time until Rhino 8 will be ready and also taking into account for the smaller upgrade price, I would say that this is still a good deal. Especially if you look at the pricing of other CAD programs.

Just my two cents and but let us not drift into a Rhino pricing discussion - there are already lengthy thread about that on the forum.

Dag Ivan -

I think that both John and I have already clearly answered that question, but since that might have not been clear enough, the answer is simply “No”.

Then to the options…

I agree.

In the end, each user has to decide for themselves - given several parameters such as hardware constraints, workflows, personal preferences, … - if Rhino is something they are willing to use. Clearly, running Rhino 7 on an M1 Apple is not something everyone is willing to do (I don’t have an M1 so I can’t compare). Rhino 8 is still very much under development, including the Metal aspect of it. Where this will end up as a finished product is very hard to predict and not something that we will do. So, for you, buying Rhino 7 now just to test Rhino 8 might not make all that much sense.

Then again, we will always fully refund your purchase if you are not satisfied - so you are not really running a big risk in trying it.

Since you already own a Rhino license (V4, V5, or V6, it doesn’t matter), a V7 upgrade license will cost you 595 €. We tend to have discounts for a limited time when new versions are released - though that is not something that is guaranteed to happen for each version.

That leaves 2 other alternatives: (1) continue using Rhino on a Windows machine like you have in the past, or (2) find another CAD program that runs as you want on an M1 Mac.
Wishing you good luck with your decision,
-wim

Dag Wim,

So to be clear , No means No?

I could off course by the licence to test the Beta version, that’s great news. But, since I will be buying a Rhino7 Licence to start using Rhino 8 WIP, this will be basically valid until you release Rhino 8. So the product I buy expires…

Or will you also improve Rhino 7 for the M1Pro Macs?

Thanks,
Bye

the fact that one has to upgrade due to other software developing further and can not wait forever and can not because of rhino being not ready is hugely ignored, so dribbling on our toes for the time being is all we can do.?!..

that does not sound like a fair customer handling, it is also not our fault that you guys made soon™ quite a bit of a trade mark too much in these regards, might as well turn into a soon† …

flame thrower off.

i think something like a student fee upgrade price range for those in transition would be a good starting point for discussion.

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Maybe it would be a good strategic move to make V8 for Apple Silicon an open beta?
Then the developers could really focus on the new stuff and not wasting time with a “cross-plattform” version 7. V8 for Silicon could be what Rhino Beta was for Windows decades ago.
Once it is released the license might be used to use V7 on old Apple hardware…
Just an idea to be discussed…
Jess

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that is a very good idea actually

There is misinformation going on in this thread as to why Rhino 7 is slow on silicon based Macs. This is not an issue with requiring a silicon native build of Rhino. The problem is that Apple’s OpenGL implementation on M1 is quite different than what it was on Intel based Macs. There are bugs and there are areas where things are slower.

We are finding bugs with this and reporting them to Apple (which are in turn getting fixed in MacOS updates). We are making changes to work around these bugs in other cases. We are also thinking of alternative approaches to drawing geometry to eliminate going down paths where we know things are slower. This is being done in Rhino 7 and will show up in our service releases in the coming months,

I can’t promise everything will be fast enough for your purposes by the time your 90 day evaluation period ends. Time will tell.

Rhino 8 will be significantly faster than Rhino 7, but that is almost entirely due to our transition to Metal instead of OpenGL. Having a silicon build will help as well, but probably not that much. Rosetta 2 does a great job of translation to get Intel based builds running pretty darn fast.

@stevebaer the discussion is currently rather targeting transitional pricing or other means. maybe this part of the thread should be split off.

We aren’t going to support any new transitional pricing models. New ways to sell a product takes an enormous amount of effort given how we sell software.

We are going to try and improve Rhino 7’s performance on M1.

@encephalon your comments about silicon above are misleading. This is not an issue with a native silicon compile. This is an issue with OpenGL driver support on M1. We’ve worked with gpu vendors over the years to resolve bugs in drivers. We’ve also found ways to work around driver issues.

i am not sure where i wrote anything questioning that fact, that is all clear to me, my concerns where entirely targeted at transitional ideas in regards of transitional pricing or other transitional means. but i am a bit ill currently, i might write some confused stuff after all :slight_smile:

that is understandable but it is a different situation now after all with all that stuff moving.

Hi Steve,
So you recommendation would be to buy anyway a m1 machine with a hope for the future (improved R7 / R8) or rather if possible a intel mac? I am thinking about buying a new iMac and the possibility of buying a 27" Intel iMac is still there. And at that case it would be even possible to boot camp Windows and use Rhino fully on Windows as well (if necessarily). So what would be your recommendation?

It’s hard to say as I don’t have all the Macs on my desk with the same types of models that you would work with.

I want to point out that the metal work going into Rhino 8 will have an effect on Intel based Macs as well and will show performance improvements on that hardware.

Just to remind you… A Rhino license is a Rhino license - for both Mac and Windows. Period. So any ‘transitional pricing’ on Rhino licenses for Mac users would need to apply to Windows users as well. Which is not in the cards as far as I know, nor should it be IMO.

i dont see anybody with a windows machine complaining.

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