Rhino V5 Reinstall After V8 Upgrade [Educational]

In preparation for upgrading to Rhino V8 tomorrow [well, V7 a few weeks ago but now V8! :smiley: ], I was instructed by sales to uninstall and share proof of the removal of my V5 (education) license from my Windows desktop to which the license was locked.

Iā€™m very excited for the new version, but had plugins, grasshopper scripts, and toolbars I developed for my pipelines for V5 that I will need to use in V8. I expect to need to update the tools I made for the new version, but Iā€™m now concerned about whether Iā€™ll be able to reinstall/access my V5 pipeline in a pinch should I have more than minimal troubles updating scripts.

If necessary, is there a way I can reinstall Rhino V5 to the original computer temporarily (assuming I need to uninstall V8 from whatever machine)?

I just received an answer from a very patient and wonderful sales rep; shared below in case anyone else comes across a similar issue. (I had V5 -to- V6 upgrade I never used -to- V8 )

The whole upgrade chain - R50-E > R60U-E > R80U-E - will make one contiguous single user license that will need to all be on one single computer. It cannot be in CloudZoo, since Rhino 5 pre-dates CloudZoo.

So youā€™d need to put R50-E, R60U-E and R80U-E all onto the same single Windows computer. Then you could use one of those Rhino versions at a time on that specific computer.

Iā€™ve heard that argument from McNeel sales as well, but I have also heard exactly the opposite - also from McNeel sales. I used to tell my clients the same thing (I am a reseller) - you either have to completely uninstall V5 and never use it again, or limit yourself to one single computer and no longer be able to use your later license(s) on any other computers you might own.

After having consulted McNeel at some later point in time they told me was no longer the case, as it was too restrictive for people who have systematically upgraded and needed to use the Cloud Zoo to share their licenses among several of their machines. This was also especially the case with larger commercial clients who had many V5ā€™s in use and could not just uninstall them.

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I have V5 installed on my desktop. When V5 was the current version I also had it installed on my laptop. I would alternate using it on the desktop when home and the laptop when traveling, though I donā€™t recall what was involved in making the switch.

Since upgrading to V6 and using the Cloud Zoo for it I have kept V5 on the desktop. At some point I no longer had it installed on the laptop, which may have been when I upgraded the laptop.

During subsuquent upgrades to V7 and V8 with those licenses in the Cloud Zoo I have kept the previous versions installed. I currently have V5, V6, V7 and V8 on my desktop, and V6, V7, V8 on my laptop. I do not use V5 on the desktop when Iā€™m using another version on the desktop.

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Hopefully I donā€™t have to test out the scenario. Appreciate hearing about both your experiences on this issue.

I thought I remember installing Rhino on my old laptop as well as my desktop, and being able to work on one at a time, but that was about 6 years ago so I may be misremembering. At this point Iā€™d need to be in a rough situation to plug that laptop back in and check, ha.

Almost bought V7 on 10/23, glad I procrastinated and eager to try out V8 on my M1 Mac.

Iā€™m not convinced your solution is correct.

The current EULA on the McNeel website is poorly drafted and doesnā€™t give an answer here, so one must turn to other McNeel materials.

The McNeel Wiki confirms that Rhino 5 could be installed and validated on more than one machine. It does not say how many but by definition that is at least two. Frequently Asked Questions: Licensing in Rhino 6, Rhino 7 and Rhino 8 [McNeel Wiki]

Given that the R5 licence is perpetual there is nothing to stop you continuing to use the software nor to stop you reinstalling as necessary to keep using it.

The Wiki says that Rhino 6, 7 and 8 can be installed on multiple computers where their use can be controlled by the Cloud Zoo. There is nothing at point of sale, nor in the current EULA, nor in the Wiki, to say that in order to install and/or use R6, R7 or R8 you must remove R5 from any machine on which you have validated it.

I use R5 thru R8 on two machines. At no time was I required to uninstall any version in order to install an upgrade. Furthermore I have upgraded PCs and reinstalled and revalidated R5 with McNeel on those PCs long after having R6 and R7 installed and using the Cloud Zoo.

Carry on using all the versions you need.

Here is the paradox that happened when V6 got introduced and the Cloud Zoo got created (which does not support earlier licenses).

Rule 1: Adding an upgrade to a previous license remains a single license. A previous version license key is required to validate an upgrade and they are then ā€˜foreverā€™ linked together.

Rule 2: All upgrades to the same license need to be installed in the same location and fashion as the previous license thatā€™s being upgraded over. For V5 and earlier, this was either locally on one machine, or in the LAN Zoo for sharing on a network. Otherwise, in theory at least, the upgrade would refuse to validate.

Why rule #2? To insure rule #1, otherwise it would be possible to run the original license on one machine and the upgrade on another simultaneously, i.e . you sorta have two licenses now.

To support rule #2, during the install, it would check for a previous V5 license key - not only the key itself, but where/how it was installed. With the introduction of the Cloud Zoo that did not support installing licenses earlier than V6, that threw a monkey wrench into the machinery.

  1. If the previous license was installed locally and the upgrade was also local, OK.
  2. If the previous license was installed on the LAN Zoo and the upgrade was also put in the same Zoo, OK.
  3. If neither of the above, not OK.

The paradox is of course that if you installed an upgrade in the Cloud Zoo, neither 1 nor 2 were true, so if the system were strict, any V5 previously installed either locally or the LAN Zoo could not be used to validate the upgrade being installed in the Cloud Zoo. The validation would fail and the upgrade would not run.

I believe at the outset that this was actually enforced by the installer. Or at least we were were told it would be. I had a document I sent to clients warning them about what would happen going from V5/LAN Zoo to V6 (upgrade)/Cloud Zoo.

Thatā€™s when the story was - either ā€œkeep it all in the same place (local/LAN) and let the automatic validation system checkā€ or ā€œuninstall V5 completely, send us the proof and weā€™ll validate your V6 upgrade in the cloud Zoo ā€˜manuallyā€™ behind the scenesā€. I actually think at the beginning it might have even been enforced.

The second option was way too much administrative work, plus the procedure made the clients angry. So it sorta quietly disappeared. At a certain point they just had to let V6 and later Cloud Zoo-installed upgrades validate without flagging the mismatch on V5 and earlier location (still checking the key of course) - with the possibility that yes, one could have V5 installed locally on one machine and a V6 and later upgrade in the Cloud Zoo, giving you ā€œtwoā€ licenses when you only paid for one and one upgrade.

Given that V5 is now three versions old, I donā€™t think it really matters much anymore.

Validation has been steadily tightened since V4 - previously it was possible to use multiple e-mails, install a license on more than one computer, etc. Not the case anymore, but the past loopholes remain of course.

Another situation cropped up todayā€¦ commercial this time.

Client has five existing Rhino V5 licenses that are installed in the LAN Zoo. Am I correct in assuming that they cannot install and validate five V8 upgrades to those V5ā€™s in the Cloud Zoo - that the V8ā€™s have to go in the LAN Zoo - since the V5ā€™s canā€™t go in the Cloud Zoo?

Or, if they want to use the Cloud Zoo for the V8ā€™s, that they have to remove the V5 licenses from the LAN Zoo? @brian

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Rhino 5 can stay in LAN Zoo, and the Rhino 8 upgrades can go in Cloud Zoo. Itā€™s up to the company to ensure that they remain compliant with the EULA by not using more seats simultaneously than they own.