Rhino BETA Feature: Icon redesign

Hi @marika_almgren and the iconic team,

instead of adding more opinions about this project, this time I’ll limit my comments to this quote:

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

Theodore Roosevelt


This work is hard, meaningful and very impactful. Stay strong and keep up the great work coming!

G

How about just acknowledging that we disagree, ok?

I don’t know, I actually think they look better (overall) against a slightly darker background. Light has always been too light for me. I have my V8 set at about 175, and my V9 imported from V8. True, the WIP gray border is less contrasty.

i dont believe that it is about one argument against the other here at least not about against in particular. all opinions have value and add up to a total image of response.

the washed out border of the new V9 icons is unbearable. Some icons have a considerably lower contrast than others, such like “Join”, “Explode”, “Box”, “SubD”, “Ungroup” and all the annoying lime green icons that bring eye strain.

Well, I don’t have the same color blindness problem as you… I don’t find them unbearable, I can definitely live with them.

Which proves my statement that various known factors regarding the different vision and age of the user base must be taken into consideration when creating the UI. :smiley: Not everyone has the same perfect vision.

@marika_almgren and @Vanessa

PLS take care of the SubD command

Having the SubD creation after all the options and before the transform area is pointless and confusing.

I’ve already discussed this with @Gijs in another post showing how the SubD creation and edit toolbar could stay together with Surface, solids and meshes.

PLS!!!

I agree it looks out of place where it is…

Is this a similar situation you veterans all went through like with the development of v8?

A chain of bad decisions leading up to a disaster launch?

This is exciting the meme chat gallery is probably gona get busy thats for sure🤣

Well, repeating dozens of very similar posts isn’t really going to move things any faster…

You are correct as you are wise helvetosaur.

We should not be repeating the same things folks, instead we should create more memes for the gallery.

Cant change it? just laugh at the absurdity of it all.

Or we find the fix ourselves.

hear me out because I might have a solution for everyone to be satisfied here:


Thats right, prescription sunglasses! :smiling_face_with_sunglasses:

Now we can all CAD in style without straining our eyes!

It’s difficult to explain how bad some of the new Rhino V9 icons look due to several reasons:

  1. Most people are not colour blind, so they think that everything is alright;
  2. The graphics designer of the Rhino UI is a female, which means she has a better vision than most males (both, colour range and contrast);
  3. Some colour-blind people are less affected than others. There are a total of 8 different types of colour blindness (3 common types plus 5 rare types), and some people suffer from two types simultaneously. Also, the colour-blidness can get worse as the people get old, but it never improves.

The worst type of colour blindness is a total lack of colour vision, which means those people only see a black and white picture. The second worst type is the Tritanopia, because those people can’t see green, yellow, blue and pink.

The red-green colour blindness has 4 sub-types, or versions:

  1. Protanomaly: Reduced sensitivity to red, so people may see the read either as green, yellow, orange, brown etc.
  2. Protanopia: Extremely weak sensitivity to red. A worse version of the above type, where pink may be seen as gray, purple and lilac look like blue, etc.
  3. Deuteranomaly: Reduced sensitivity to green. Most light green shades look like red, pink or orange, while the medium green look like dark green.
  4. Deuteranopia: Extremely weak sensitivity to green. A worse version of the above type.

Pink letters on a gray background (or vice versa), or red letters on green background, or yellow letters on lime green background, or red letters on blue background, is an especially disturbing combination for some people (like me) who suffer from red-green colour blidness, because they see those colours as nearly the same (depending on the shade/brightness), but the border between the two colours become dark, “moving around” and causes re-focusing of the eyes (acts confusing about the actual distance to the object), hence an effect of constant blinking and de-focusing of the picture is generated. I see this on some icons in Rhino. I can distinguish red from blue, but when these are combined and small (some icons have a red “X” over a blue object), I also see some dark border around the “X” which must not be there when I zoom-in the image in a graphics program.

Colour-blind people also have a reduced perception of contrast, so they see a washed out picture, unlike the people with normal vision.

Distance to objects also changes the colour perception. For example, I have a weak sensitivity to many colours for distant objects (kind of a reduced colour palette, like the 8-bit game consoles from the 80s), but I can see them better, with a wider palette and closer to their actual colour as soon as the object is 20-30 cm from my eyes.

The rainbow scale of the “Draft angle” analysis in Rhino is confusing for my eyes, because I see a reduced amount of colours. Some shades of green I see as red, some shades of red I see as green, some shades of orange I see as green or yellow, etc.


Here is a basic colour palette comparing the different types of colour blindness. I guess that “Baseline” is representing what people with normal vision see.

I’m not sure how useful it is to repeat the same discussion points again and again. But just to reiterate some previous points from the other new icon topics:

  1. Grasshopper 2 has already demonstrated how to do dynamic/customisable icons schemes. So there’s no reason that Rhino 9 couldn’t provide similar functionality. One would think?

  2. Adding “Appearance → Color” options enabling users to set their preferred mesh, brep, subd, stroke etc. color would presumably solve the issues some users have posted (e.g. color blindness and aesthetic preference), which might be feasible with the new SVG icons?

  3. There is already work done to customise icons by manipulating e.g. contrast, gamma and tint. While that might not fully resolve user needs, it does provide feasibility for something ala point 2 (again, being fully ignorant about the underlying tech here)?*

Edit: Just for the record, I really like the new icons :partying_face:

Colors, line thickness and even gradients can all be controled or “styled” with CSS within the SVG. You could then use variables and change them through css pre processors (I think even native css variables are a thing now). Or problably it would even be simpler to target those by using classes. Important is that (thanks to css) you don’t need to open, edit and save each individual icon in order to change its style. With css you can target all at once or in defined groups.

One way would be to have an external way of manipulating the style of the icons outside of Rhino and then load them into Rhino as a package. The other way would be to have a section in the Rhino settings where you can directly control the colors of the icons in Rhino. I think the first way would be simpler to implement and that could be paired with the ability to save and share custom icon sets.

Anyway, as I’ve mentioned before, I’m happy with the new icons and I really appreciate the effort of the McNeel team to inform about every new feature. Some users here show toxic behaviour. I hope the McNeel team has a healthy way of dealing with this. Some people just can’t accept if things don’t go the way they want. I’m not sure if there is any other similar software (Autodesk, Solidworks, Adobe, Affinity) that lets their users have a say in the development process as much as McNeel with Rhino does.

This GH option is great but it does not help new users.

Great update! This will definitely help both new and current users enjoy a more user-friendly environment. Keep up the great work!

I’m afraid I don’t follow. Which GH option? And how does it not help new users?

Yes, this discussion does not seem productive anymore. Whatever one does, another will not like it.

The proper way to resolve this is are outlined. SVGs can be styled and users always should have a choice.

:+1: :+1: :+1: