Rhino 8 User Interface Freeze Approaches

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

@atair

not being able to change the font type or size in the command history is a problem

I’ve added
RH-74360 command history: change font size

@atair

UI color customisation in macOS is pretty much non-existent. And it should not depend on the system theme settings.

I will ask why this difference exists.

@atair

the awkward command prompt placement inside the main icon panel

@atair

The strange part is that it should really not be that hard to make these changes to consolidate this core functionality (the command prompt) between mac and Windows, yet the people here tell me its going to be in V9…

As far as I know it’s still on the list of John to tackle for v8

[gustojunk (Gustavo Fontana)]

@jsb.walker

but it’s still incredibly cumbersome compared to having the entire workflow baked into one piece of software like Blender has. But this is an insanely complex feature to add at this point.

Not just at this point. It’s a crazy complex thing to tackle ever.

The idea of asking McNeel to make Rhino to be best-in-class at everything that every other package already does is a moot point, delusional and a guarantee advise for them to go out of business. But thankfully of course they know better and will always ignore this advice.

This is why I made this joke last month:

@gustojunk

Well, here’s the deal: if for V8 you guys don’t get:

• fillets to work better that Solidworks
• vectors and fills better than Illustrator
• subDs better than Blender (with plugins!)
• Surfacing better than VSR
• rendering better than Octane
• UV unwrap better than RizomUV
• Layout better than Indesign
• Everything better than Autocad

Also I want a brand new UI, that’s just like Adobe + Fusion + Sketchup + …Zbrush!

…Otherise, I’m NOT giving you the $300 upgrade for the next few years, because I already paid $300 for V7 3 years ago, and you guys STILL have not surpassed the entire software industry in term of functionality and UX!

Have a great weekend everyone!

G

The best strategy IMO continues to be making Rhino work 10X better with other software packages.

This is why I want as part of V8 (these are not huge projects, quite the contrary):

• Blender Live-link
• Plasticity ‘quick fillet round trip’

The idea of a Bridge to Substance is a nice gesture, but I have no idea who is this tool built for, but for us it has absolutely no use, because we only send our work to Substance after it has gone to Blender + RizomUV. Because we would waste too much time modeling all our SubDs in Rhino instead of Blender, or also waste too much time UV unwrapping Blender instead of in RizomUV.

Specialization and interoperability is key for professional results and I really want McNeel to embrace that, beyond the Revit market.

G

[atair]

sorry to bother you again with this, but:

Fonts are designed for different use cases - and when using single words, especially in a technical context where letter combinations can be arbitrary and not meant as readable words but rather identifiers, having the default Arial / Helvetica / Segoe etc. font is just bad design.

I mean, you can keep it, but at least let us customize it! (command history the same)

in resopnse to the RH-74360 - It is not about a user complaining the font is too small - it is about basic ui/ux considerations

ps: the layer is called IllI

[brian (Brian Gillespie)]

@atair

not being able to change the font type or size in the command history is a problem.

The font size for command history is the same as all the rest of the Rhino UI - all the dialog boxes and sidebar panels. If those aren’t legible, either, I think you can fix this by making fonts bigger in macOS preferences.

@atair

UI color customisation in macOS is pretty much non-existent.

I think that might be coming, it’ll be an advanced setting. I had hoped that color customization would be based on two or three colors, and the rest of the UI would update. We’re not quite there yet.

@atair

the awkward command prompt placement inside the main icon panel is still the one worst idea you ever had.

Sorry, it’s kinda stuck that way for the time being. We hope to have a unified command prompt (one that can be universally loved/hated by both Windows and Mac users) for Rhino 9. I think the only reasonable option is for there to be three or four options: Classic Windows style, Classic Mac style, and a new one (that incorporates buttons and checkboxes like Mac, but can be arranged either vertically or horizontally).

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

@atair

Fonts are designed for different use cases - and when using single words, especially in a technical context where letter combinations can be arbitrary and not meant as readable words but rather identifiers, having the default Arial / Helvetica / Segoe etc. font is just bad design.

I mean, you can keep it, but at least let us customize it! (command history the same)

thanks I added that.

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

@atair

UI color customisation in macOS is pretty much non-existent. And it should not depend on the system theme settings. (who even thinks of hard-coding that?)

It should be doable, but I have not figured it out completely. To get you started there is:

Rhino.Options.Advanced.DarkMode

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

@maje90

Why blue bar so thick? Can we have them thinner?

@ryan.odom

It’s just as much about visual proportion as it is about space usage. On the left, the toolbar has zero pixels between it and the edge of the window. On the right, you have a chonky chonky line which is thicker than the line that divides the viewports.

I agree, it’s on the list as https://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-73334

@maje90

Can’t it have tabs made of icons + name like in floating toolbars?

You set different options here (tools > options > appearance >

containers:

[maje90 (Riccardo Majewski)]

@Gijs

You set different options here (tools > options > appearance >

containers:

I was not able to remove (to save space) those “Layers” and “Properties” texts…

[jeremy5 (Jeremy)]

Toolbar Management issues

1. Legacy misnomer

Now that toolbars are referenced from the Window menu, the reference to “Toolbar Layout” on the Tools menu is obsolete (and a misnomer: it opens the Toolbars panel which has no immediate layout capabilities). I suggest you remove the Tools menu item.

2. Missing information

Toolbars panel does not show any toolbars from the default library ticked. Should show which ones are in use.

Toolbars panel does show one toolbar ticked for a plugin (Maxwell). However there are three Maxwell toolbars on display.

3. Inconsistency

Right clicking on the primary toolbar (below the command panel in the default layout) shows this:

Right clicking on the sidebar shows this:

The latter lacks the management tools of the former and is more akin to the Toolbars panel. Except that inconsistently it refers to RUI files instead of Layouts.

4. Papercuts

I am now permitted to add a panel to a menu set:

And a menu to a panel set:

This only really has any application in flyout sidebars.

But what’s fun is that after deleting Boxedit from my Standard Toolbar container - which ought to put me back to where I was before - I find that if I try to open the Boxedit panel it automatically redocks itself into my menu set. Apparently forever more. To stop it redocking I can’t use delete, I have to drag the Boxedit tab to another location.

5. Left Sidebar

If you use the left sidebar toggle while you only have a Standard sidebar menu (i.e. Main) the menu reduces to a single column, apparently empty, container. There is no affordance that you can fly out the toolbar because there is no visible icon and the fly out only works if you click at the first icon position. Either display an icon or make a click anywhere in the container cause the fly out.

The Curves sidebar menu does display an icon, but that is a poor choice because it is the same icon as Control Point Curve.

The flyout sidebars do not display the full command sets of their fixed counterparts.

If you change the top toolbar to one that applies a different sidebar (e.g. from Standard to Curves) while the sidebar is toggled away, the icon does not change until you click on it (or its placeholder).

[jeremy5 (Jeremy)]

UI Colour theme

Most of the UiPaintColors option settings seem to have been disconnected recently, making it impossible to experiment with alternatives to the stock Light and Dark themes in the search for better legibility suggestions.

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

@jeremy5

Most of the UiPaintColors option settings seem to have been disconnected recently, making it impossible to experiment with alternatives to the stock Light and Dark themes in the search for better legibility suggestions.

It’s not removed but it has changed. Some examples of colors (still need to figure this out myself until I hear back from John):
Rhino.UI.ThemeSettings.Frame.Background (main background color)
Rhino.UI.ThemeSettings.Content.Background (main foreground color)
Rhino.UI.ThemeSettings.Content.Text.Enabled (text of enabled tabs and icon popout triangles)
Rhino.UI.ThemeSettings.Content.Text.Disabled(text of disabled tabs)
Rhino.UI.ThemeSettings.Frame.GripperDot
Rhino.UI.ThemeSettings.Frame.Button.EnabledHover.Text (hover color of statusbar texts)
Rhino.UI.ThemeSettings.Frame.Button.Checked.Text(text color of checked buttons in statusbar)
Rhino.UI.ThemeSettings.Frame.Button.Checked.Background(statusbar checked button bg color)
Rhino.UI.ThemeSettings.Frame.Button.Enabled.Background(statusbar not checked color)
Rhino.UI.ThemeSettings.Content.Button.EnabledHover.Background(buttons hover color)

[jeremy5 (Jeremy)]

Thanks Gijs, I’ll try to have a play over the weekend. Is there going to be some sort of a GUI interface for selecting parts of the screen and setting their colours, or is it going to have to be done through the Advanced Options settings? If the latter, any idea when we might see some documentation on what setting applies where (over and above your detective work!)?

p.s. Big thumbs up for the new Reset command.

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

@jeremy5

Is there going to be some sort of a GUI interface for selecting parts of the screen and setting their colours

Not planned, but I think this is fairly easy to script once all dust has settled.

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

@jeremy5

remove the Tools menu item

thanks, RH-74393 Toolbar Layout menu option is obsolete

@jeremy5

Toolbars panel does not show any toolbars from the default library ticked. Should show which ones are in use.

The way I understand is how I reported it here RH-74394 Toolbars checkboxes

@jeremy5

Right clicking on the sidebar shows this

yes that seems wrong. RH-74395 Popup on main left toolbar is different

regarding point 4, this seems to work as intended. Containers are universal and you are even allowed to put instances of the same toolbars or panels in multiple locations.

@jeremy5

Either display an icon or make a click anywhere in the container cause the fly out.

Good point, RH-74396 Main toolbar is missing a toolbar icon

Thanks for taking the time to report!

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

@maje90

I was not able to remove (to save space) those “Layers” and “Properties” texts…

Yes that’s currently not possible
RH-74401 Option to hide container titles

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

@atair fyi the YT I made is set to ‘won’t fix’ as it is said that all the fonts used are based on the fonts used in your os. Please comment on this, if this doesn’t solve your problem, thanks