Man! This combo is working! 
What does this mean? @stevebaer you may have some ideas?
And btw Riccardo, how did you come to this?
(edit: bringing back the properties panel does this, just to say :))
Hero.
I did had similar stuttering problems by using 3dconnexion mouse + a high polling rate mouse … Steve did find this workaround to relieve the stress on the viewport.
(that’s why I asked you to check about polling rate of your trackpad)
Also, do apple laptops have always 60Hz screen? Maybe your is higher?
The numbers updating the camera location in the properties panel and/or the numbers updating about cursor 3d space location in the statusbar are triggering the problem.
The viewport is sort of “weak” against those “aggressive” UI elements updating…
Edit:
your systeminfo from [R8 MAC] Graphics Performances - #37 by the_eraser tells you have:
Apple M1 Pro
BenQ GW2480 (1920 x 1080 @ 60.00Hz)
Color LCD (1512 x 982 @ 120.00Hz)
Someday I’ll buy a 144Hz screen , for gaming.
It would be awesome to also navigate 3d space with ultra smooth feedback, but I feel the combo 3dmouse+high pooling rate mouse + high Hz display would almost surely kill our dear rhino.
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Mac have this option. [no idea what it is but it’s the default]
Not that I’m seeing any of these issues on my M2 …
I don’t know if it’s related but I did also report issues about “not-smooth” coordinates updates in v8.
The question is then: why do my (very modest, i Know) Mac do consider this aggressive in v8 and not in v7?
And can a workaround that allows to keep the Properties panel opened be found?
I personally don’t care at all about coordinates / number being updated while dragging (I imagine that they are useful to others?), but would like to keep my toolbars opened while drawing.
Anyway, it’s already good to have an entry path to explore the problem.
Thank you very much.
I found the stutter pretty obvious in even the small versions of the video. I’m not as bothered by it though: we’re watching a CAD package, not a Pixar movie.
My first thought, as an ex gamer, was to wonder whether Rhino 8 was treating mouse speed and acceleration settings differently from V7.
The user interface is a rebuild in Rhino 8. There are small optimizations that need to be reapplied.
Of course we all aren’t Nathan Bossett.
If someone is Ok with it, it doesn’t mean that it’s Ok for everyone.
Let’s get things better also for those whose sensibility is different than ours.
I’d like to express a bit of disappointment with McNeel’s resource allocation and what I’ll call ticket management for lack of a better term even though you don’t seem to track tickets.
It doesn’t seem like a good long term strategy to pour all of the attention on the squeakiest wheel.
Fixes don’t have to be instant, but an initial response and setting expectations is vital.
An increasingly loud complaint about screen flicker seems to have gotten a dedicated dev including weekend effort plus focused attention from various other senior people because it’s loud and repeated, while reports of:
-
a multi-minute delay in the Package Manager, a key feature for plugin users, doesn’t even get crickets as a response. Ever tried to talk a user through “Download this file, then find the directory it went to, then find someplace else to drag and drop it to?” That’s not fun for the plugin customer or the vendor so it’s why manual installs are bad and a smooth Package Manager experience should be a top priority.
WISH: Package Manager - Rhino / Rhino for Windows - McNeel Forum -
A difference in geometry handling between V7 and V8 which is apparently a significant issue for a Rhino user and his client (neither is me in this case- I just helped with the repro), crickets. (maybe it’s a bug, maybe it just needs an explanation he can either work around or take to the client)
Curve.Contains Fail -
Basic API problem, fix apparently didn’t do it, no response yet.
SDK RhinoCommon: Exposed ON_Extrusion::GetBrepFormComponentIndex : RH-77226 (myjetbrains.com) -
“How do I apply a plugin license to a group of users?”, one response that was just a dev tag and then no response.
How to Add Plugin License for Group to Cloud Zoo - Rhino Developer - McNeel Forum -
weeks to get a Cloud License API Key. It was getting the initial response that was the problem- email to dev specified in the help file, no response, email to tech@, no response, phone call to tech, instant problem solving. Dev gets an A, ticket system gets an F.
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Code signing key, just under two weeks, so far, just to get a response, estimate: 10 more days, to get a code signing key. Ticket system gets an F.
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All choices have consequences. One thing is clear: we can’t make everyone happy, and we can’t fix everything for Rhino 8. We’ve poured an incredible amount of time into the making Rhino work incredibly well on Mac for Rhino 8. An insane amount of time. For me, on my M1, Rhino 8 feels buttery and smooth - nicer than ever - and I expect it to be that way for everyone (especially with a box). Because of the huge amount of time and performance gains we’ve seen (especially, but not limited to Apple Silicon macs), it was important for us to understand this problem.
It was really great to see this community come together to help us understand the symptom and how to reproduce it. We still don’t understand it or have a fix, and it might not even be fixed for the first release of Rhino 8. But at least we are closer to understanding the problem. Thanks, everyone, for your help.
And thank you for pointing out the things that matter to you. Not that it’s a good excuse, but many of us are traveling this week for a conference, so our response times are slower than usual.
Brian
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Well, as V8 release is imminent, I expect they’re concentrating their dev time on the most visible part of it - the UI (especially on the Mac side). I would expect it to continue to be this way until V8 is released and possibly some time after, like maybe until 8.1. That’s just the way it is.
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You and @Helvetosaur seem to be missing a key point:
Priorities are necessary in development, obviously. I hope you’re not saying that totally failing to respond to inquiries and bug reports isn’t a serious corporate issue but just one of those things.
i have seen it rarely work… mcneel does not seem to cook faster when you apply more pressure, here all you can do is bear with the pain till one sudden sunny or rainy day it finally happens. and you better watch out because i promise you will miss it anyway even if you try, if its being cooked at all.
so in that sense i agree and have pointed out many times, not responding on crucial questions like for instance how messed up fonts are right now in Rhino which after years of trying to get one concise answer is still failing… something which got quite some heat and nobody was willing to explain anything even after some serious progressive intervening from several people.
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I made several optimizations in this area over the last couple days. It may not solve your stuttering issue, but there’s always hope. Please let me know if you are still seeing stuttering after we release the next beta.
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wow, tough crowd as they say. I shouldn’t comment, as I’m a totally new user, and can’t even scratch the surface of what Rhino can do. But I ran the trial for a few weeks, and loved it enough to buy a licensed copy, so there’s a minute of skin included. For the cost, for the accessibilty of suport, for the refreshingly upfront,flexible and realistic view on licensing, I’d love to say ‘suck it up Princesses’, but that would be rude, condacending and not very grown up either. Sorry, but Rhino and McNeel is beyond anything else I have seen and can give many pointers to other software companies. Peace and love.
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Ok, thanks. Looking forward to test it.
Here is a new beta from our internal daily build system which contains my latest round of changes. It also contains a fix for SSAO in parallel projections. We will be releasing a more official beta update later today or tomorrow.
https://files.mcneel.com/dujour/dmg/rhino_beta_8.0.23292.01004.dmg
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Hello Steve, thank you very much.
The stuttering is still happening, but again: only when the Properties panel is active (and with no object selected).
Once i close / hide it, or select an object: all smooth!
(I personally use the Properties panel a lot when working, so I tend to keep it always opened)
SSAO in parallel projections is fixed – but still difficult to work with:
- Colours / brightness maybe need some fine tuning?
- The intermittent-shadows thing isn’t very fortunate
- Weird slowness happening?
(I had to compress the videos to keep them <20Mb, but it gives maybe the idea.
I believe this is due to the constant updating of the camera and target controls on that panel. I will investigate adding a test command to disable updating of these controls while you are manipulating the camera to see if my theory is correct.
You can turn off SSAO degradation while moving the camera with the TestDynamicSSAO command
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