There’s something in your reasoning. You can’t say you want to mimic reality;
And at the same time not using real world parameters;
100% polished and 100% white do not exist in reality and they look fake in renders.
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I was thinking the same thing as you ,Holo. Let people use the same objects in a file then let them render it to their liking or explain what they see missing . —-Mark
They’re not the same thing - one is fakery, one is just a non-realistic default. But point taken.
I’m still not convinced about 68% though. Most metal objects I have around here have more perfect reflections than that. And my big concern is the jewelers - who like things to be shiny.
I’m going to refer this to the in-and-out of house jewelry experts. @Trav?
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Here’s the model that we made that’s a simple copy of the one that was postedMechanicalpart.3dm (18.2 MB)
If someone wants to spend the time to put a thread on the lower part, be my guest.
Philip
Microbumps and blurry reflections are basically the same thing.
Unfortunately, I’m not talking about Cycles or rendered view here. Both of those do a fantastic job of rendering that effect. I’m talking about the old, creaking RhinoRender.
- Andy
So, can I assume that since no one has actually posted a response to this, that in reality, no one really gives a crap about this problem?
- Andy
Bug logged for metal reflection polish default change. Please continue to express your opinion on this.
Hi Toshiaki,
I managed to track down where I had that file from and it is from this tutorial maker:
http://www.mrbluesummers.com/4701/downloads/free-hdri-map-photo-studio-with-umbrella
He has released that HDRI with no copyrights attached.
Click this link, not the ads on the page 
(It is just a zip with two images in it, one jpeg and one hdri.)
Happy rendering!
Not shabby for an integrated (free) renderer.
Just simple materials, pain, metal, glass, plaster.
My biggest issue with this is the required knowledge needed to navigate the environment panel, adjusting HDRI’s the camer DOF settings, and the too minimalistic material settings.
In example Plaster needs a shine setting too, as you can have plaster semi-glossy.
And pain has a bug with the fresnell reflection where it turns to 100% and does so too early.
(Take a look at the rims: They are the same green pain as the car)
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You mean paint? 
Anyway, if you flip your surfaces you’ll see that it looks better. IOW your normals are pointing the wrong direction. This is logged already as a bug RH-35844.
I did a quick simple test with the artificial HDRis posted by @BrianJ. Only imported the HDRis and set them each on turn as both custom skylight and custom reflection. Further that’s two rings (I modelled my engagement and wedding rings…) and some boxes with fillet. Walnut and dark denim from the material library of Rhino.
Top left is the currently shipped standard Rhino Studio environment, then in order from left to right, top to bottom studios A through H. No environment manipulation (rotation, intensity), just as is. Rotating env probably would give better results.
Hehe,
that’s exactly how all fellow Rhino user feel who spent a lot of work / thought on posts which remain unanswered…
This looks better, yes.
I do not quite follow the recent reflectivity discussion – what speaks against toning down that start-glossiness in
the metal preset to a value that gets close to real world values (and doesn’t add terribly much to render-time). Users still could dial in higher values if they so want.
Reflectivity being totally off (either way too high or everything just Lambert) is one of the 3 most prominent render errors one can spot all of the time. A Laymen geared engine-implementation should assist in this area, nobody is helped with images which converge quicker but look shitty.
Yeah, especially the DOF settings are difficult… Wrong DOF can easily make the model look like a scale model / toy car.
Philip
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I did not read the complete thread, but this reflectivity discussion makes little sense without using maps to break reflections. The wood material to me looks unrealistic at all degrees of glossiness – the ring reflection is way too prominent and crisp. Varnished wood always needs a specularity map and wood sorts other than Walnut will likely also need a very subtle Bump for the pores, at least for closeup-shots.
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This! We can not expect to get realistic results using just textures for diffuse color. Reflection (with realistic Fresnel values) and Bump maps are a must for getting real world materials. I think V6 should be packed only with physically correct materials, and let the users “hack” those materials if they are interested in getting non physical results.
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You are absolutely right. But a principled-based material with normal mapping, maybe some smudge maps, isn’t in V6. Physically correct(er) materials will be something for V7. I am already prototyping materials based on the Principled BSDF with possibility to add smudge and AO maps for added realism and control.
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hi Andy,
I don’t want to turn this into an endless debate. I just want to clarify a couple of point:
I’ve been a Rhino user and very involved one for 16 years, also quite close to the development on many aspect of it. So yeah I thing I have it pretty well figured out. And your approach and culture has served you r company, and us your customers and friends very well in most cases. But in the rendering space it’s just not working. And you have 16 years (since I’ve been watching it at least) of mediocre-to-bad results to prove it.
Yes, that’s why I’m pointing out here. The results, approach and engagement you are expecting for user for this is completely screwed up. You cannot say that we just want it all done for us magically. I have spent hundreds of hours testing, documenting, reporting all kinds of issues related to rendering quality and UX. After all that effort that many of us, users, have put into feedback, seeing how unacceptably bad your product still is, it’s really really frustrating. And demanding a change of approach/culture/management/prioritization/talent/etc. its only fair.
It shows. And it’s an arrogant standpoint that only shows how out of touch you are with what’s a minimum standard of competence, let alone excellence. When a client hired me to do design work, my responsibility as a designer is to try to make the best product possible for them. If I do not know where the industry standard is I risk designing completely below threshold solutions. This is exactly what’s happening here. It’s a shame.
I’m really trying my best here, nut this is an area of yoru company that is extremely frustrationg so yeah mayeb I do lose my cool a bit, but it’s because I’m trying to make you snap out of this mode that years after years is taking you, and us, nowhere near where we need to be.
I seriously thing you have a major problem in this area of your product. No product is perfect and you can’t do it all, and you can’t compete with a dedicated professional renderer, etc, etc. I get that. But what you have today it’s just tooo bad to be useful for most of us. I don;t thing it’s a render engine problem, it’s a… ok I better stoop I don;t want to be a broken record. I talked about the problems many times and I have given plenty of examples in all forms.
I just want to make clear that I’m not attacking you, @theoutside, @BrianJ, @nathanletwory. I just think that the work that you have produced so far in this space, for whatever internal reason, it’s just not cutting it. If you take offense on that candid feedback, and not an easy one to give on my part, we then have bigger problems.
I’ll just leave here with a comment on that 3rd. party stuff. Part of the problem we as users have now is that even using 3rd. party solutions is very hard. Because the integrations are very very poor in many cases. I don’t know that’s the reason for this, but maybe it’s just that we are not reporting them. For now I’ll try to focus on that so at least we can use one good render engine in a more integrated way with Rhino. Maybe that, to your point, releases the pressure we are putting on your team to be more like software X.
Want to talk about this, I’m always reachable. I’ve just send you by private message my phone, email and skype to discuss live anytime. I don’t want the distance of the keyboard being seen as a shield, or to give room to take things out of context or our of spirit.
Best Regards,
Gustavo
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Hola! You’re still sleeping when I start my day!