Pricing between US and EU

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#1

Can anybody give me an explanation of the price difference between the US $790 and EU $1208 for exactly the same product/Rhino 5?
And how would you go about ordering Rhino in the US.

I’m more than willing to pay for a product because someone created it but not just a random high price.


Rhino 6 download live
#2

Simply spoken - taxes (VAT). If You order Rhino outside from Europe, you will be charged (you should be according the EU law)by adding the tax after check out.


#3

There is no 50% tax. Highest rate here is 21% (VAT) but that’s not applicable in our case. Digital file import has to my knowledge a 0% tax rate.


#4

Yes. The official retail price (tax not included) in the US is not $790, but $995. Some resellers will discount heavily, thus the “street” price of $790 by that “N” reseller. I don’t know how they get away with that actually, since IIRC there was at least a tacit agreement that resellers are not supposed to undercut the retail price by more than 10% - but the US is a commercial free-for-all without much control…

In Europe, things are somewhat more “controlled”. First, there is the policy from McNeel that 1$ = 1€ for the EMEA (Europe, Middle East and Africa) markets. This has been much discussed in the past, but that’s just the way it is. Currently the exchange rate is about 1 Euro = $1.20, so in the EMEA market, Rhino retails for about 20% more than in the US. Resellers can cut the “retail” price if they wish (by reducing their margins), but there is less competition and less incentive to do so in most places.

(Actually the situation with the Euro-Dollar exchange rate is much better now than it has been in the past, when the Euro was worth 35-40% more than the dollar…)

In my understanding, the main reason there is not an online global market with uniform pricing is that McNeel supports its reseller network worldwide, as resellers play in important role in local markets by promoting the product and providing native language customer support, training, etc.

That will actually change at some point, as countries are wanting to recover the sales tax revenue that is currently being lost via cross-border internet commerce. The rules are already in place here, but currently enforcement is somewhat difficult…

–Mitch


#5

‘That’s just the way it is’? Doesn’t go with me.

And having a native language cust.supp. isn’t necessary in almost all cases. (people using rhino/cad tend to have a quite good understanding of the English language).

Exchange rate is actually being beneficial for the last 3 months if I was able to buy in USD

For me there is only 1 thing that can cause this pricing and that monopoly (almost) of the party/company reselling Rhino in the Netherlands.


#6

May not matter to you, but it actually does quite a bit here… English comprehension (and the willingness to deal with it) varies greatly from country to country and culture to culture.

Nope. All European resellers have to buy their product from McNeel Europe (Barcelona) in Euros at 1$ = 1€. So they are forced to sell to their customers at those prices too. US resellers are not allowed to sell outside the US - can’t say if anyone actually violates that significantly, there are always workarounds on the customer end of course.

Yes, that’s just the way it is…

–Mitch


#7

Tell it in France :slight_smile:
Here, in the CZ, the main languages are english and german.


#8

In our company about 75% of employees use Rhino in Czech and 25% use English version. I doubt we will ever persuade them to switch to English. Luckily there are _commands so we are still able to assist them when they need help. :slight_smile:
Jonas


#9

I still do not see a valid argument why I’m not allowed to order from the US site. That some country’s are not very good with English shouldn’t be a reason. Why should I pay for the ‘service’ I will not use.


#10

Samozřejmě, čeština je primární a proto jsem ji vynechal. Mínil jsem další jazyky.
Of course, the czech is in our country primary language a due to this reason I omitted this fact when I mentioned other languages…


#11

Actually yes then. There is a monopoly held up for no reason.

And I do not want a work around. I just want to order a digital version of rhino. That’s it. But only under the same conditions as in the US.


(Miguel Villegas Ballesta) #12

Easiest solution… move to the US.
In this world, there are countries with borders, laws, taxes, markets and languages.
It is nonsense in an era when you can “freely” communicate with the other side of the earth in real time? OF COURSE
Is it the way the world works? OF COURSERRR
Want to have it changed for you? Cheat or contact your local authorities.
Want to change it? Become a local authority…


#13

You’re talking nonsense
It is not illegal to buy software in the United States,
unless the developer does not want it, (But where to read ???)

If this is pure marketing strategy, then YES, I do not like it either

and
when downloading software from the Internet, the customs administration is not responsible, since no goods but “only” data are moved.
You pay, purchase price(for download only) + additionally 20% to 21% VAT, that is !!!

And the question is, why there is not such an offer in the EU ???

@Nathan_Wierink …you’re right but the problem has been around for years and not only here, many companies make it so.

Here in the eu you can save a maximum of 30 euros :rofl:


#14

Of course it’s not illegal. This risk is not on the customer side, it’s on the reseller side - if there is proof that a US reseller is willingly selling licenses directly to European customers for example, the reseller simply risks losing their franchise with McNeel…

In this day and age, “data” are goods and thus are as taxable as any physical goods. The problem is mainly in how to collect. Many people see taxes as sort of a penalty or fine and get very indignant about having to pay. In reality, taxes pay for a lot of the stuff you see around you - schools, hospitals, roads, utilities, etc. I’m not saying I LIKE paying taxes, but I’m happy to have what they pay for available to me.

Well, yes, I would like to put gasoline in my car for the same price as in the US, too… :rofl:

However with the difference in price of a Rhino license, maybe a quick weekend trip to New York on a low-cost airline would be in order - probably cost a lot more in the end with food and hotels, but would be fun at least. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

–Mitch


#15

Ok Mitch, I tell you my experience with(excessive) worldwide shopping.
A duty-free article(downloaded software) will be taxed with:
varies 20% - 21%
\called
DE: Einfuhrumsatzsteuer, in Germoney payable above 22 EUR, as gift above 45 EUR
UK: import VAT
DN: importmoms
CZ: import DPH
FR: TVA à l’importation
IT: IVA all’importazion
ect…
I understand calculation of him @Nathan_Wierink
Before we make fun of someone, if I buy a software privately, then I look for the price differences.
$ 789 + 20% import VAT / exchangerate = about 745 EUR legal with VAT
So it is a slap to pay here 1150 EUR and more…
Yes yes, if the company or an institution paid software, then everyone is happy.

GN: pensive:


#16

Digital goods have 0% tax added when imported. (at least in NL)
Making the assumption that I’m seeing taxes as only a burden is totally not the case. Actually living in NL with almost the highest taxes in the world gives me also a great place to live.

And gasoline is a physical product and not comparable to something digital. Or are you able to send me the gasoline digitally?


#17

Hi Nathan,

and here the current EU-VAT rules (new since 2015):

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/vat/index_en.htm

Meaning, that the EU dealer has to charge for electronically delivered goods (here a Rhino license) the VAT from the EU destination country (instead you have a EU-VAT number (ask your accountant), then no taxes have to be charged).

Take care

Michael
www.flexiCAD.com


#18

Why is it not comparable? It’s a product like anything else. Just because you can’t touch it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. You pay for telephone and internet service, don’t you? That’s “digital” and it’s also taxable(here at least).

The whole model of how goods and services are distributed and taxed is completely up in the air right now. Countries are struggling to come to grips with how (and if) the digital economy should be taxed. But I think that as more and more revenue streams are transferred from the physical to the digital, pretty much all governments will want to tax digital products if they aren’t already - simply as a matter of keeping the money coming in so the government can run.

–Mitch


#19

It’s not comparable because to get gasoline here in my car you need al lot of extra effort since NL doesn’t produce any. The digital file doesn’t need this at all.

And as mentioned, I’m not trying to avoid taxes but the file is simply more expensive here then in the US and for no apparent reason.


#20

Well, one of the reasons is the 1$ =1€ policy that is an internal company decision as mentioned earlier - you can argue with them if you like… The second factor is that you are using the “street” price in the US - which is more than $200 lower than retail (if you were to buy directly from McNeel for example) as a comparison. The reason the street price is lower in the US is that the economy functions completely differently than most of the EU countries (and not necessarily better). You might try to get a European reseller to give you the same discount. Good luck on that.

–Mitch