"Obsolete Version of Rhinoceros" made people speaking up obsolete

Accept the criticism and improve instead of hide the posts that speak the truth and stick your heads in the ground, @dan. If people don’t see the complains then there are no issues, is that it?!

These kind of posts like the one @encephalon posted, should not be hidden or deleted because it’s the truth! There is nothing wrong in his answer that is against the “rules of this forum”. It’s neither inappropriate, nor insulting, it is not off topic. You can’t just delete something you don’t like.

If you don’t like people seeing such posts then close the forum, destroy this community and invest in a customer-private technical support only.

This answer was civil compared to what has to be said regarding some policies you follow and if people are truly honest.

This is the final answer I got from @brian when I started asking questions regarding the installer.

Instead of figuring out that I want to help and improve the process with suggestions or not even asking for the official installer to change but rather build my own that makes the installation without the unnecessary gimmicks. Like the terrible, in my opinion, splash, that is slow and gets in the way and users have to click the close button.

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i dont think dan hid the post away, he does not seem that type, but what do i know… i think rather its one of the “ghosts” siding here in a suck up manner. whoever hid that post please go and read the guidelines once again and dont troll around. or at least speak up if you have something to say.

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I’m not actually one of the people that flagged the post (I think it takes a few flags in order to hide, plus a decision from an admin somewhere), but if I had seen it earlier I most likely would have. The post contains an insulting personal attack on Dan. Criticisms - even harsh - of the product with all of its bugs, weaknesses, delays in implementation of features etc. are welcome here, personal attacks are not.

Just as an aside here, I have the privilege of knowing Dan personally, and he is one of the people that has been driving Mac Rhino development since the day he joined McNeel. I think I can truthfully say that if Dan was not at McNeel, you might not even have a V6 in your hands currently - maybe not even a V5. So maybe you want to say thanks…

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Here’s a quote to make you think about when clicking that flag button.

Does it have to happen to you for you to realize there’s no one left you can rely to support you?

Just recently one more of the Regulars felt bad from McNeel answers:

I can probably find more. The change will come eventually in how Regular users are treated, but will it not be too late?

I think that often…

Thank you @dan et al., for all the hard work to make Mac Rhino a reality; past, present, and future. Truly and deeply appreciated!

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aha? i have said thanks many times.

sometimes (lets say too often) the thank you to customers that come here to report bugs, is being suggested to delete their rhino and contact sales after they spent a lot of time actually helping out. sounds pretty unthankful to me. still want to plead that sentence?

also my criticism was not specifically aimed at @dan if one manages to read the essential content without feeling offended like a minor. its the attitude towards the customer in general as i have pointed out plenty of times which goes to several people including you even though you are not a McNeely but a Rhino Sales man which puts you also through your aligned attitude into the same “corner”.

i am not trying to create any unnecessary anger which i got from anywhere else, only releasing some of that frustration which i consumed over the years reading and also experiencing in this forum. unfortunately as much as i like you for your humour, good input and millions of handy scripts you have contributed, you are one those who side with this strange unfriendly customer treatment policy in such situations pretty fast and since you have enough integrity, obviously you are never alone, while actually contributing towards this bad customer relation.

and just to point out again, why is it that you think so many more people are complaining about the progress of Rhino for Mac recently? maybe all of those should contact sales?

the development of Mac Rhino has been taking around 10 years. it took more than 5 years to even launch a commercial version of Rhino, after 10 years we are still not there, we are heading somewhere into the right direction ok, but if i get suggested or read once more from somebody from mcneel to contact sales when i/somebody speak/s up, i might seriously do that. i anyway sit too much in front of the computer, so if you want to help me out making the right decision be welcomed.

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seems to me more like 10 months:

Here’s a quote to make you think about when clicking that flag button.

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

Does it have to happen to you for you to realize there’s no one left you can rely to support you?

download

Yes. Definitely. Generally this gets said after the person just keeps haranguing on the same issues after they have been explained as best as they can be. At a certain point, in looking at the sum total of a particular person’s posts, the reader gets the impression that the person is not at all happy with Rhino. So then the offer gets reiterated. From me and other people. And I will continue to do so if the occasion arises. If you look at the number of times that that particular suggestion has been offered in relation to the number of posts it’s probably around 0.01%.

Yes, there are issues which are waiting to be fixed for a long time. On both platforms. There always will be. There are even some regressions from the previous versions. Stuff happens. The priority of what needs to be fixed/implemented first is always the stick point. Everyone wants their own particular issue fixed NOW!

So what does one do when people insist that this or that or the other thing is crap and that they have been waiting for it for X number of years and it still hasn’t been fixed - and it’s clear from a development standpoint that that particular problem is a can of worms to get into, that it cannot get fixed tomorrow without moving other stuff off-track? Apart from apologizing for the problem and trying to explain why it can’t be fixed tomorrow? And when that answer is not accepted?

I believe that I have said this before, but working with a software package is like being in a relationship. Sometimes you grow together and sometimes you grow apart. When the annoyances/disputes get to be too much to tolerate, or if you find another person better suited to your needs, it’s time to separate.

There are a certain number here, from a certain number of people. This is similar to the Windows side IMO. But I do not believe it is a majority in either case.

And the point is? Rhino V6 for Windows took six. And some people are still not happy with the release version - what can I say? That’s just the development speed - at least we have the WIPs/Betas to use during that time.

Just to clarify - yep, I am a Rhino reseller (but it is not my full-time job nor my primary source of income), and yes, I do try to offer some insights here from a reseller’s point of view and the fact that I know fairly well how the McNeel system works. Most of my posts/responses here are those of a long-time Rhino user and teacher. And yes, a Rhino/McNeel fan - have been since day one - and will continue to be. So yes, I will admit a certain bias towards the software and the people I really do love.

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I do not think percentages matter, “a spoon of tar ruins a barrel of honey” and all…

Well, the inactive members will post a complain once a year (or more), because this is how much they want/care Rhino to improve. It is the active ones that matter the most. They are not the majority as well, probably 0.01 % of all users. So, what is that about?

I complain about a lot of stuff here, yet I promote Rhino wherever I go and work. Demonstrate, teach. Free of charge without even being a resaler.
It is all irrelevant. Even though I defend the way to focus on fixes and improvements of the API rather than UI stuff. At the end fighting for people that answer like the quotes above, really puts a bitter taste in the mouth, don’t you think?

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Don’t buy it. It’s like when you see a restaurant or a hotel on TripAdvisor or some such site that has tons of rave reviews plus a few people that hated it. I consider that possibly/probably the persons that did hate it had a bad experience, but that is the exception and not the rule, so I can be pretty well assured of having a quality experience.

I don’t buy that either. Generally you don’t hear from satisfied users at all. They just keep buying upgrades every time a new version comes out.

Don’t get me wrong, I support 110% critical analysis and comments here. McNeel does too. I just don’t support personal attacks, nor do I believe that repeated yelling and screaming about the same issue actually is productive - quite the opposite.

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As a matter of fact when I look for items to buy on amazon, games on steam or places to go on booking it is the negative reviews that I read. It is them you have to trust are honest.

@encephalon made it clear it is not personal attack so…I won’t go there.
It is what the person represents, namely McNeel. It is not just Dan. Also there are others that I could not praise more for being helpful regardless.

“Yelling”, is not productive, so isn’t “waiving” issues. And even less people ganging up against one who has expressed one’s frustration.

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I believe what I read in the post, not what people say their intentions should have been interpreted as… - suggesting someone should “submit their resignation” or “stay off the forum” is 100% PERSONAL.

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:slight_smile: A figure of speech

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Yeah, right.

If you’re mad at something/someone you say I’m gonna do this and that to this person.

Are you truly planning to do so?
No, it’s a common expression.

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Actually I don’t.

:slight_smile: ok, I don’t believe you. There are no such people.

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Whatever.

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