Next layout tabs contents nukes the previous layouts to become same..big problem lost my first layout

Having created a Layout, name it Plan 1, the amount of time spent, it makes sense to then use it as a basis for the next one.
right click on layout tab and choose ‘move or copy’ and choose the source (plan 1), then right click and move or copy and place it to right of existing. r/c properties and name it Plan 2.
I also tried for an Import and choose the existing file when browsing. This also works to create a layout I wish to use matching the shape and scale and title and logo of the last one.

Alter the title panel, size it, Go to main normal tabs, turn off all but the wanted object, add dims there (easier to work full screen !), back to layout Plan 2 and make the panes show the next object. Lots of moving and resizing detail borders, all looks great.

HAPPEN TO LOOK AT plan 1 and hells bells I have lost all the work there, 1 days worth of fiddling about, learning layout was in that tab. :cry:
its now same as Plan 2. and in fact tab 3 which I also made in preparation is also same as Plan 2.
I save my file as a new name, try again and again it happens.

Content has changed though the size and orientation hasn’t so A4 portrait remained so, when next tab was A4 landscape, just the content has changed. Title survived.

It must be possible as move or copy allows one to move the layout tabs to and fro.

They were to be A4 P, A4 L, A4 L, A3 L etc. each with different object, different scales at times.

I have 20 or more to do of the objects in this project.

Perhaps save the massive project file before using an existing layout as above, means 20 or more copies of the master project for my 20 layouts, this is going to get complex and also use up HDD space. As I add dimensions to the project for the object, saving it each time a new layout is created so as to be able to access previous un-nuked layouts , will see my dimensions and any tweaks I do be out of date for the previous saves , project V11 Plan1, V11 Plan 2 etc etc.

I had sensibly experimented on this yesterday with a test file and had three independent looking layouts, I open that file now and they are still there, each one different, so I do the right click move or copy, I get page 4, rename it, move to right, alter it to a red item in the main object, scale and align the part. look at previous and THEY ARE NOW ALL THE RED OBJECT.

I attach that test file before todays red object nukes all, and yesterday when all was good.
Test objects Layout command_v3 3 tabs all independent.3dm (4.6 MB)
Test objects Layout command_v3 red object nukes previous.3dm (4.6 MB)


You’re hitting another Achilles heel of Rhino.

Be noted that the model layers always need to stay on! To hide something from a detail use: HideInDetail (or select the things you want in a detail, then invert and HideInDetail), or activate a detail, then turn off layers for the detail in the detail layer manager. It’s complicated and one has to be very careful.
The easiest way is to make sure all your drawings are made and ready to turn into layouts, then make the layouts one by one using the above method. HideInDetail is by far the quickest way to do that.
Or when you start a detail (active by double clicking in it), select all, use HideInDetail, then followed by ShowInDetail to reveal just the stuff you want in that particular detail. There is no ShowInLayout/HideInLayout. Everything is tied to details.

how become it worked yesterday for me ?
see attached. above last post.

So what you are saying is, dont go back to the normal views, and hide all but that I wish to show in a layout view, as doing so will cause previous layouts to lose their content, they all take their content from the current ‘show’ item and dims.

My project is very busy, I cant navigate to things I need to see in what is a square a few inches wide, I certainly cant apply dims which need zooming in massively at times to avoid clicking on the wrong bit, and zooming in, in layout messes up scale, I am spending too much time resetting the details, altering the edges with control points, resizing the text and using text wrap which is most odd when a dialog box dictates the size of the wrap box. Its taken me two days 15hrs a day to create two plans, it very useful but it also bites back, I am covered in blood.

What I had done looked great, all undone because I went intop my normal view to get at the next object. I struggle as it is with the complexity of it and the sub layers and so on its needed, I also have a grid I use behind the object, I can turn that off in detail view, thats great, also turn off dims, fantastic.

Either then I will, as I feared, have to save the entire project per plan, with file size 70Mb, what a waste of resources. I can then get at the detail in BIG SCREEN mode , essential, or do it the old way, print a single oretho view to pdf, open the 4 in Pshop, do some messing about there.

or Save the project nuking all layers except the object I need , and dont go changing any views. that knocks down the file size, . (best way I think)

How does one padlock everything light bulb wise to avoid anything being altered ?

Damn shame, we should be able to have layouts all in the one project file, if we forget to not touch anything in the main project ever again, we are stuffed bigtime, thats awful. so padlock the entire layers and visibility. , embalm the project in formaldehide, try and work on a screen a few inches wide called detail view.

Upset, :cry:

Please tell me V7 gets over this problem.

is there a plugin that makes better of this, so that when one clicks on Plan 1 tab it turns on the layers that were on when that tab was made ? Thats what it needs.

hey what if layer state manager was saved as layout Plan 1, so opening tab Plan 1 one would go to LayerStatemanager and get the layers back on for that layout tab, would that work ?


I’ve seen the files, it’s exactly what I already replied: don’t change the visibility of model layers once you start working in layout mode.

Short answer: you can’t unless keeping all model layers on and everything you have in your file visible. Then handle all the rest in layout mode.
Again you need to be very careful not messing things up. Once you are in layout mode you get an extra set of light bulbs. These you can use to hide layers from the active detail. Or as described above use the ShowInDetail / HideInDetail commands.

I have bad news for you: nothing has changed in this regard.

I have rescued my lost layouts, I did a show all in model, then they all came back but with a load more than just the objects, so carefully selected the items I needed WITHOUT ZOOMING and yes I forgot, as do others, and had to resite and align all over again, this is a beast of a command, … , then use tools show object layer, then make sure layers are on in that set which might have items I need, right click on one of the highlighted layers, select sub layers, that gets everything selected on the relevant layers, invert command, HideInDetail,
get rid of anything I missed with HideInDetail, but thats effective as done, .repeat for all four windows. save file as Plan 1 DO NOT TOUCH MODEL LAYERS.3dm

do again for plan 2, and 3.

so now 3 70Mb files, one per plan. will become 1.4Gb after 20 done, this is not good, needs improving McNeel please.

V7…oh no.

Its like defusing a bomb is this, hours and hours any moment boom. There has to be better. 3 days now and 3 plans done.

code it so that tab Plan1 turns on layers in use when it was created.

Would my idea of LayerStateManager solve this, each layout and one makes a layer state manager for it ?


Hi Steve, you don’t need to save 20 models. Just one is enough provided that you keep the layers and objects visible in model space. You could even make one layer state for this “all layers on for layouts” but make make sure you have no hidden objects in your file that are hidden with Hide command.

Next in Layout space, you determine visibility per detail with the detail layers and/or HideInDetail/ShowInDetail. As long as you keep doing this any detail you finish will be set in stone.
You can safely copy layouts and change details this way. Make sure to only use the detail layer light bulbs in this stage and note they only work when a detail is active. The detail light bulbs can be switched on and off also when no detail is active, but will have no effect on the visibility of items/layers in the detail(s).

I highly recommend to use a layer called details where you place the details on, same goes for annotation, dims and title block.


No - if you have different layer states for each layout, it wouldn’t be possible to print all layout to a single PDF file in one go.

I have a very busy model , something like 400 or so layers at a guess, with all on I cant see whats what easily, my navigation through my project has been to zoom in and select an item, then hammer tool in layers and select object layer, select sub layers, invert and hide, means zooming in to do so and find the item amidst a mass of things at times. I cant zoom in detail as it loses scale and resetting scale means aligning up again the views (as linked viewports doesnt work) then moving the detail frames back into place.
If I turned on all the layers in my model, before making layouts, then used the detail column lightbulb to hide those I dont want and do so in each of the 4 views, it would take me hours to just show what I need for a layout doing so for 4 views, as the layers have gone very busy. Each item and sub component has a layer for it with varying shades of the items colour theme. Then there dims layers in same colour theme, and another layer for construction lines, normaly off,
I find looking at life in the small detail box when I view the model full screen very tricky and frustrating.

My thoughts lie with cloning the file, turn on all I need, Import the layout, delete all layers I dont need, save the file as Plan3 and it gets used purely for layout mode Plan 3.

Just to check my iea was understood, if I go into model, turn on all layers, do a show all, then select the layers I need for Plan 1 and turn off all other layers, save in layerStateManager as Plan1, do layout plan 1, then go back into model, turn all back on and turn off all but what I need for Plan2, save in layerStatemanager as Plan2, make a layou, and so on etc, If I visit Plan1 it wont show what it should do, but if I run layerStatemanager and turn on layers Plan1 I thought that would repopulate Plan1 again.

I have rescued my lost layouts by show all then hiding what wasnt wanted in model, (select wanted items, use invertHide bulb icon tool) and in Layout Plan1 all was as I had left it, no need to pan/shove things about, ** it had remembered my pans and shoves, and scale, I then saved that file as Plan1 DO NOT ALTER MODEL.3dm
so if LSM can display what was needed for Plan1 then thats doing the same ?
I will experiment and see.


In that case, yes I think a safer bet is to do as you say, making multiple files is going to be easier.
On the other hand, with such a big file, I wonder if you can split up the model in parts and have one ‘assembly’ file you set up using linked files / worksession

they do need to be together really as changig one items needs the others there to relate to, however I am unfamiliar with linked files/worksession so could explore that option.

I have just tried LSM but realise it doesnt restore a state of of what was hidden, I reckon my idea might work if there was a coomand to save a state as what was hidden and what was on show. I have all the relevant layers for the model turned on, and to show an Item I select it and hide all else, all I need to repoulate plan 1 is ti restore what was hidden and what was visible.

So WHAT COMMAND WILL ALLOW ME TO SAVE A HIDE SHOW STATE as opposed to a layer on or off state ?
I might be onto something here.