Need block system improvements!

Hello,
Please, make a big update to Rhbino blocks system! It is so old and inconvenient! Take a look at SketchUp components ! Need block in block better edit and god damn scaled blocks editing(this just ruined everything now)!!!Blocks are vital for architecture modeling! 2019 Please!!!

Hi,

It might be good to explicitly tell what functionality you are missing.
A general " it should be better" is not enough for developers to know what should be better.
Also it might be your wishes are possible in another way than you thought of.

-Willem

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Sorry for lack of info
I see rhino as an advance tool for architecture modeling and so most of the things i need to do are repetetive and have multiple layers of detail - E.g.Building Surface can be divided to surface with wall blocks - Wall block with opening- opening with window - window with glass - glass with frame and so on . This is the way I (and i am sure others too) work on architecture model - from general to specific. So even if i am not sure about opening dimensions i at least have place holder. Complexity of the model starts to increase geometrically as i define the details. The advantage is that i always can go up the ā€˜stackā€™ of blocks and set overall size but proportions will remain. SO In sketch up this strategy works fine and the reasons why it is not working in rhino AT ALL are :
1.You cant edit scaled blocks(VITAL thing) 2.Block structure do not allow to go deeper than second lvl 3.You canā€™t edit block in block by command or double click - you need to see what the name of the block you want to edit and if there are several copies then guess which one you need. 4.During edit , objects outside the block just locks in ordinary way, so if you press unlock then everything messed up.
These are the most painful. Thereā€™s more.
Thank you.

Hello - for the scaling part, you should be able to BlockEdit blocks that have been uniformly scaled. Are you finding that is not the case?

-Pascal

Thank you for your answer.
I meant non uniformly scaled. Like if I define the place and dimension of the part with box turned to block and then i edit( scale in different dimensions) the whole object that is consists of many different blocks- placeholders i need then to add details inside these blocks in the world coodinates not original block coordinates. It is hard to explane , it is much easier to try this in sketch up. Create box with window opening and turn it in to component then scale it a bit in one direction and then add window with 50 x 50 frame inside scaled block. In the original non scaled block this frame wont be 50x50.

It seems to me you have change the way you work.

I am not saying blocks inside Rhino donā€™t need a good overhaul. They certainly do, but perhaps Grasshopper or Worksessions or even switching to layers instead of blocks could be more appropriate.

Also, have tried using scripts? There are enough handy methods do edit nested blocks and the objects inside them.

What I like about scripts is that you can make the functions work exactly how you like.

Just tell me why it is impossible to edit non uniformly scaled blocks? I saw a post where one guy said that nobody touches blocks so long because in terms of codding this is ā€œpain in da assā€ as he said.
Need to say that i know at least several arch studios that want to switch to rhino but the fact that the block system is so strange keeps them working acad+sketchup workflow.
My pray is - PLEASE MAKE NON UNIFORM SCALED BLOCKS EDITABLE.
This will make rhino one step closer to be called user friendly(not only coders friendly)

Why would you scale a block non uniformly instead of creating a script that changes the data (the 3d objects) non-uniformly?!

Because this is direct modeling that is much faster, and allows to use core base rhino tools advantages.If you are talking about grasshooper, then this approach requires to keep all geometry procedural till final bake and all attributes like materials need to be defined inside grasshopper that is not the most comfortable way to work. Also not everything is that easy to define with script, sometimes it is just easier to do direct way , but to do that you will need to bake that is breaks the procedure. Maybe i just have bad experience or just lack of it . Is there any tutorials or just showreels that shows that way of work with big detailed architecture project?
And just for a second , imagine how easier lide would be if blocks in rhino would work like components in sketchup(*i belive that this is not profesional programm, but but despite it just doing super base commands that just works and this makes it much more trusted by people)!

As I said, blocks do need an overhaul, but also your way of working I think is wrong.

From my point of view you should not use blocks this way, but Iā€™m not that kind of architect.

I agree, it would be handy to have non-uniform BlockEdit.
My understanding is that it is not enabled, because in some cases it could produce bad results. Ideally, if this is predictable, a warning would be added, or it would be allowed to work as an option, ā€˜at userā€™s riskā€™, but it should allow to work in basic cases. Imagine a simple scenario where your block is just a box. Non-uniform version is scaled along Z-Axis only. It should be perfectly fine to edit the non-uniform version of it.

There is some more info ā€˜whyā€™ in this thread:

but I am wondering if these special cases are detectable and could be prevented, while allowing ā€œnormalā€ cases to just work.

One of Rhinoā€™s strengths is the flexibility of allowing user to do almost anything, even at the cost of producing weird, bad geometry. The non-uniform block edit issue is one of the exceptions from that rule.

ā€“jarek

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I definitely would welcome editing of non uniform scaled blocks as well. And Iā€™m not an architect.
And double clicking blocks inside blocks
And unlock not affecting objects outside the block being edited.

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Yes on both of them. Is the season for V7 wishes officially open now? :wink: These are good ones.

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Isnā€™t that possible now with sub-object filter on?

Iā€™m not sure what you are referring to. I think we are looking for editing nested block instances. Now double-click only lets editing top-level blocks. Unless I am missing something.

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Youā€™re absolutely right.

No, I guess I am missing how you ā€œgroundā€ architects use blocks.

Iā€™m going to approach this spirited request and conversation from a different angle!

For a long time I used SketchUp so I am familiar with some of the reasons for the request. But having more recently worked on a project with a team using Solidworks, I would propose that it would be nice to opt for two types of Block navigation/edit style based on the design application:

  • Architectural: Block editing experience closer to SketchUp components.
  • Engineering: Block tree navigation more like Solidworks/Inventor/Fusion360 - with a panel that can be permanently docked.
  • Original: I know I said two, but I donā€™t want to alienate anyone who likes the current Rhino3D Block Editing style.

There sure are some quirks in Rhinoā€¦ like the hard lesson you learn the first time you save and exit while editing a block! Iā€™m all for improving my ways of working, but Iā€™m fully open to supporting the McNeel development team with experimenting on improvements in this area.

just an idea, maybe somebody can post a simple example drawing with 2 non uniform blocks on it with a example of an editing problem on it so some of us non educated people can understand, learn, and work on ideas to solve. Break it Down.

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Agreed, Iā€™m not following what they are looking for at all.

My $0.02