# Model space and Layout viewport Docked at same time?

**URL:** <https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/model-space-and-layout-viewport-docked-at-same-time/132620>\
**Category:** Rhino for Windows\
**Tags:** layout, mac, drafting, viewport\
**Created:** [November 1, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/model-space-and-layout-viewport-docked-at-same-time/132620 "2021-11-01T20:02:10Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 8\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Elucidesign](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/elucidesign/32/683521_2.png) [@Elucidesign](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/Elucidesign)\
**Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/model-space-and-layout-viewport-docked-at-same-time/132620/1 "2021-11-01T20:02:10Z")

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I _really_ want to View Modelspace and Layout space at the same time! See Attachment.

I’m not talking about Viewport Tabs, or Floating Viewports… I get that. But moving Rhino to another Desktop Space when there are several disconnected Windows is a PITA, especially if you have massively hi-res monitor and CAN fit workable side by side Viewports.

I’ve spent too much time trying to hunt down a command item and moving around Viewports… only to wonder if it is a limitation of OpenGL / or Rhino. I understand that Layouts are rendered maybe differenly compared to Model spaces… but don’t know why it wouldn’t be possible.

Also, I see how Layer States could complicate this… but Rhino is nothing if not Complex!

 ![Model Spc with Floating Layout](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/uploads/default/original/4X/d/0/4/d04c8f439c43129f4575ac572591685bcdcad542.jpeg)

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**Author:** ![andrew.nowicki](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/andrew.nowicki/32/764376_2.png) [@andrew.nowicki](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/andrew.nowicki)\
**Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 10:01pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/model-space-and-layout-viewport-docked-at-same-time/132620/2 "2021-11-01T22:01:54Z")

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> [@Elucidesign](#):
>
> I _really_ want to View Modelspace and Layout space at the same time!

Bad news: Worksessions cannot be used as layout elements.

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**Author:** ![mary](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/mary/32/764567_2.png) [@mary](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/mary)\
**Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 10:35pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/model-space-and-layout-viewport-docked-at-same-time/132620/3 "2021-11-01T22:35:34Z")

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Hi @Elucidesign,  
It could be possible, but not in Rhino 7.  
Anything additional would need to go on the tracker for a future improvements discussion.

Can you explain your image?  
I know you said you were not interested in floating the viewport.

- How would a good solution work?  
If you move the Rhino windows, would the entire tiled configuration move in a “container” window?
- And how and where would you access this setting?
- Is there another product that has this feature.

Let me know and I will log the feature request.

There may be users who have not tried to float the Layout.  
Here is a GIF that shows the tearing off of the Layout viewport. ![Tear off a Layout](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/uploads/default/original/4X/a/7/d/a7d61db2f6d62a7cb7e6c04a2866589204c411d7.gif)

Thanks for your help.  
Sincerely,  
Mary Ann Fugier  
McNeel Technical Support and Training  
Seattle, WA

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**Author:** ![dale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/dale/32/685184_2.png) [@dale](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/dale)\
**Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 10:36pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/model-space-and-layout-viewport-docked-at-same-time/132620/4 "2021-11-01T22:36:45Z")

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> [@andrew.nowicki](#):
>
> Worksessions cannot be used as layout elements

I have no idea what this means…

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**Author:** ![andrew.nowicki](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/andrew.nowicki/32/764376_2.png) [@andrew.nowicki](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/andrew.nowicki)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2021, 12:02am UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/model-space-and-layout-viewport-docked-at-same-time/132620/5 "2021-11-02T00:02:51Z")

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You cannot have two instanes of Rhino: one displaying the model space and another displaying the layout space of the same model.

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**Author:** ![Elucidesign](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/elucidesign/32/683521_2.png) [@Elucidesign](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/Elucidesign)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2021, 12:30am UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/model-space-and-layout-viewport-docked-at-same-time/132620/6 "2021-11-02T00:30:20Z")

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Thanks Mary Ann. I appreciate your correspondence on this. Floating Layout is pretty workable, but here are some features that would make it more efficient:

First off though, Toolbars also suffer from abandonment when moving desktops, however I’ve made my peace with this through carefully tabbing, docking and layering of toolbars so their are no floating toolbars  
However, _ **Viewports** are critically associated with the specific .3DM file you’re editing._.. and so should hang together, by default.  
The real issue here is how tedious multiple monitors, multiple desktops, etc are to navigate, when a program doesn’t drag all it’s siblings along with it, whether Viewports or Toolbars.

Here’s what I’m looking at:

**Model Spc Layout Process (New Annotated):**

- **5%** or less of my labor in the Layout space (Left 1/3)… since objects created IN Layouts are not associated to model space, I prefer not to waste time belaboring changes in the Layout… Rhino’s tabbed layouts are _ **great** _.
- **95%** of the real work is done exclusively in the Model space (Right 2/3). The Floating Layout viewport is paper sized and serves as a PDF preview of Client or Vendor Deliverables.
- **My workflow annotations:** CAD Data and Details in (Blue) are sent up to A (Red) Elevations and B (Yellow) Elevations, or over to Vendor .DXF output in (Orange).
- Layer settings and Layer States in (Green) allow Control over the Layout plans (and PDF ultimately.)
- Rhino has developed a great system, but it’s complex and hard to learn best practices… on the 2D drafting side, so I guess we all just make it up as we go.

 ![Model Spc - Layout Process](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/uploads/default/original/4X/e/7/9/e79a16df8e0eb7e36af2daf35c083b8a9b132527.jpeg)

**To answer your other questions:**

> [@mary](#):
>
> If you move the Rhino windows, would the entire tiled configuration move in a “container” window?

1. On Drag, or on Float Viewport command Let Rhino calculate the remaining display area away from the Main window, and then Snap/Fill it 100% with the Layout.
2. Secondly, If another de-docked Layout is brought close to an edge… Let them split the space 50-50, similar to your Toolbar behavior.
3. **How and where:** Have one Tiny “Thumbtack” or Magnet icon on the layout or menu that will cause it to Move with the Main Rhino container from which it was spawned. Or make Move w Parent the default, and a Break Link icon.

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**Author:** ![Eugen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/eugen/32/656992_2.png) [@Eugen](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/Eugen)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2021, 8:19am UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/model-space-and-layout-viewport-docked-at-same-time/132620/7 "2021-11-02T08:19:21Z")

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Hello! From a usability perspective: Is there any good reason why model and layout space viewports should not be mixed? Meaning, why can’t any single viewport just be switched between model/layout?  
I know this is an age old tradition, but why actually? It can be quite useful to keep model and layout space side-by-side.

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**Author:** ![Elucidesign](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/elucidesign/32/683521_2.png) [@Elucidesign](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/Elucidesign)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2021, 3:11pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/model-space-and-layout-viewport-docked-at-same-time/132620/8 "2021-11-02T15:11:38Z")

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> [@Eugen](#):
>
> Is there any good reason why model and layout space viewports should not be mixed?

I have had the same question. I had assumed it’s a display / coding limitation, but I’m not sure.

Yesterday I discovered you can apply the Rendered mode to a Layout window and can then see Decals rendered as bitmap textures! … _ **and leads me to believe they might be more compatible than once thought.** _

> [@andrew.nowicki](#):
>
> You cannot have two instanes of Rhino: one displaying the model space and another displaying the layout space of the same model.

Either we disagree on nomenclature, or this isn’t accurate.  
I would use Instance to mean Rhino.exe and we’re not talking about two executables.  
I _ **am** _ displaying the Model Space and Layouts from a single 3dm file, as shown in my **Screenshot**. I have floated the Layout window… standard stuff. All we’re talking about is whether the floating Layout can be pinned (good) or docked (best), and how it could work in some future version.