# Layouts and Scaling Oddities

**URL:** <https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/layouts-and-scaling-oddities/110915>\
**Category:** Rhino for Mac\
**Created:** [October 25, 2020, 4:34am UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/layouts-and-scaling-oddities/110915 "2020-10-25T04:34:19Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 10\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![miano](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/miano/32/762004_2.png) [@miano](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/miano)\
**Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 4:34am UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/layouts-and-scaling-oddities/110915/1 "2020-10-25T04:34:19Z")

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I am seeing all kinds of scaling oddities in layouts.

(1) As I previously reported, scaling of line style appears to have no effect in layout mode,

(2) If create a custom line style, the settings I use appear to have no effect until I close the file an reopen it.

(3) Hatches appear to be scaled in layout model. Is there some setting to make the appear the same in model and layout spaces?

(4) Here I have two plans in the layout with the same scaling (1:192). I created a custom line style in inches of 0.25, 0.25 in both. Yet in one file, the dashed line was nearly solid. As shown, I have set one to use 0.025, 0.025 to get roughly the same scale. I am puzzled why I have line scaled with a factor of ten difference showing up roughly the same size; leaving me with the problem of how to get consistent lines across multiple files.

 ![Screen Shot 2020-10-25 at 12.22.29 AM](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/uploads/default/original/3X/e/c/ece80bfa263d1cc07eb3d67afbf1882f5535287a.png)  
 ![Screen Shot 2020-10-25 at 12.20.08 AM](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/uploads/default/original/3X/8/a/8ab812e1c7126c3564e44ae9ce4e71380b8af722.png)

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**Author:** ![jari.huuskola](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/jari.huuskola/32/485884_2.png) [@jari.huuskola](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/jari.huuskola)\
**Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 10:54am UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/layouts-and-scaling-oddities/110915/2 "2020-10-25T10:54:34Z")

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(4) Deck 011 line pattern is in **millimeters** and Deck 110 is in **inches**?

0.25 mm = 0.25 mm  
0.025 in = 0.64 mm

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**Author:** ![miano](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/miano/32/762004_2.png) [@miano](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/miano)\
**Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 3:57pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/layouts-and-scaling-oddities/110915/4 "2020-10-25T15:57:24Z")

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Thanks, I was feeling silly until I went back and discovered how I got tripped up:

I created a new file and a new line style in it using INCHES

 ![Screen Shot 2020-10-25 at 11.53.21 AM](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/uploads/default/original/3X/4/5/4593d4c681401796e78da389d9a61ec0e6cc2c36.png)

I save the file and come back and now it is in MM but not scaled:

 ![Screen Shot 2020-10-25 at 11.54.21 AM](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/uploads/default/original/3X/8/d/8d4e7c0d47b82a4e783f36a523d8078268ef6373.png)

Let me amplify:

1. New File
2. Go to Line Types
3. ADD
4. Switch to Inches
5. Enter a Pattern
6. Save
7. Reopen
8. Go to Line Type  
The pattern is in MM with the same values set for Inches.

On the other hand

1. New File
2. Go to Line Types
3. ADD
4. Enter any Pattern (in MM)
5. Switch to Inches
6. Enter the desired pattern
7. Save
8. Reopen
9. Go to Line Types  
The new pattern is show in MM but is scaled.

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**Author:** ![miano](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/miano/32/762004_2.png) [@miano](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/miano)\
**Post date:** [October 26, 2020, 2:17am UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/layouts-and-scaling-oddities/110915/5 "2020-10-26T02:17:18Z")

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To my list of Layout scaling oddities, let me add arrowheads.

When I zoom in layout, the arrowhead size shrinks and grows.  
When I print an arrowhead in layout, I get the head but not the tail.

Zoom out the arrowheads get huge:

 ![Screen Shot 2020-10-25 at 10.15.00 PM](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/uploads/default/original/3X/a/0/a03eb1eadeb13c7d21913dc1f9c390fefcb73819.png)  
Zoom in and they get small  
 ![Screen Shot 2020-10-25 at 10.15.09 PM](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/uploads/default/original/3X/c/9/c94b6e3942325e5a89d8962ee51611469f489297.png)  
Print and the tail goes away  
 ![Screen Shot 2020-10-25 at 10.15.17 PM](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/uploads/default/original/3X/6/6/66ccf8f0c925d19acff8cca21e52df7fd9a5f07b.png)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![miano](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/miano/32/762004_2.png) [@miano](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/miano)\
**Post date:** [October 26, 2020, 3:51am UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/layouts-and-scaling-oddities/110915/6 "2020-10-26T03:51:59Z")

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Another layout oddity.  
I am seeing custom line styles in created in inches being converted to mm with the same value. I’m trying to track down exactly what causes it.

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**Author:** ![wim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/wim/32/747482_2.png) [@wim](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/wim)\
**Post date:** [October 26, 2020, 8:52am UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/layouts-and-scaling-oddities/110915/7 "2020-10-26T08:52:03Z")

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Hi -

> [@miano](#):
>
> Let me amplify: […]

> [@miano](#):
>
> Another layout oddity.  
> I am seeing custom line styles in created in inches being converted to mm with the same value. I’m trying to track down exactly what causes it.

From your description, these appear to be the same issue.  
I’ve tested this in 5 different ways but can’t seem to get it to fail here on a current build of Rhino 7.

> [@miano](#):
>
> To my list of Layout scaling oddities, let me add arrowheads.

The on-screen size of an arrowhead is constant and that is documented in the help file.  
We have an open feature request for arrowheads with sizes and I added your vote - [RH-37989](https://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-37989).  
-wim

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**Author:** ![Helvetosaur](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/helvetosaur/32/635974_2.png) [@Helvetosaur](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/Helvetosaur)\
**Post date:** [October 26, 2020, 9:30am UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/layouts-and-scaling-oddities/110915/8 "2020-10-26T09:30:10Z")

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> [@wim](#):
>
> The on-screen size of an arrowhead is constant and that is documented in the help file.

Yep… In this case @miano you should probably use _leaders_ instead of arrowheads.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![miano](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/miano/32/762004_2.png) [@miano](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/miano)\
**Post date:** [October 26, 2020, 4:03pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/layouts-and-scaling-oddities/110915/9 "2020-10-26T16:03:11Z")

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Thanks for the suggestions. Any idea how to handle hatches?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![wim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/wim/32/747482_2.png) [@wim](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/wim)\
**Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 1:07pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/layouts-and-scaling-oddities/110915/10 "2020-10-27T13:07:43Z")

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Hi -

> [@miano](#):
>
> Any idea how to handle hatches?

I take it that was answered in your other post?  
-wim

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![miano](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/user_avatar/discourse.mcneel.com/miano/32/762004_2.png) [@miano](https://discourse.mcneel.com/u/miano)\
**Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 2:21pm UTC](https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/layouts-and-scaling-oddities/110915/11 "2020-10-27T14:21:38Z")

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Yes.