No, that is correct.
The Zoo console has to have the license check out feature turned on (it’s off by default), and to check out a license you would start Rhino on the LAN, run the CheckOutLicense command, and off you go.
The Cloud Zoo is a tool that works a bit like the LAN Zoo but uses the Internet instead of a LAN. It does not support V5 licenses.
Access to software, operating on different file formats, utilizing version specific plugins, is by no means comparable to cars. Not in any aspect.
Bying a new car and turning in the old one, doesn’t prevent me from trodding all the old roads, made only for cars of a specific year model.
This was really really bad news. I was actually going to ask if it wouldn’t be the most natural thing in the world to provide access to ALL OLD VERSIONS when buying a newer version.
Like when I upgrade Delphi development tools, of course I need to always be able to work with and maintain any old code. Shouldn’t have to explain this to a bunch of developers.
Simply because all the “old roads” still needs to be traveled without accidentally damaging the roads using the newer, heavier clumsier car.
But here you give us the answer. The worst thinkable answer of them all. This was really bad news. Really really bad news. 
So what you are telling me is that I should forget about using Rhino as a platform for specialized user applications, simply because I wiull not be able to maintain old application versions.
Did I forget to say that this was really bad news?
The future of Grasshopper and it’s role in complex end user applications ( = may not even be portable to newer SDKs) just went down the drain.
Did you really think this through? Obviously you didn’t.
// Rolf
My understanding after the forum exchange above and a phone call to McNeel Sales is I can continue to use V5 after upgrading to V6 including installation on replacement computers if I install the LAN version of the Zoo to manage the licenses. The Zoo will only allow Rhino to be run simultaneously on the number of machines for which there are licenses - in my case this will be one machine, so no change from what has been allowed.
A reasonable question is why the Cloud version of the Zoo has not been designed to work with V5 as well as V6 licenses.
I agree with Rolf’s comments above that the car analogy is not valid. I do not see anything in the V6 End User Agreement (EULA) which says an upgrade to V6 cancels previous licenses. https://www.rhino3d.com/6/eula The language I quoted above says An Upgrade License extends your existing License to include running a newer version of Rhino. Nothing about replacement of an existing license.
Every metaphor has it’s limitations.
Cloud Zoo was developed after the V5 development was put to bed.
The problem is not getting Cloud Zoo to work with Rhino V5, it was not possible to make Rhino V5 work with Cloud Zoo.
I’ll leave it to higher-ups to explain the thinking behind our license agreement.
I’m just the messenger.
So I guess that since June last year things changed for the worse then?
Ref. last sentence [as in “final words at that time”] (by @brian) in this thread:
And also:
What will happen in the future for me?
I have Rhino 5, which I have a full license for and I use Rhino CAM pro 2012 in this version of Rhino. Now I have bought an upgrade to Rhino 6 and I can not run Rhino CAM pro 2012 in Rhino 6.
There is no possibility for me to be able to upgrade Rhino CAM pro 2012 to a newer version that should be able to be run on Rhino 6. It’s way too costly.
Will my Rhino 5 installation become obsolete in the future as I’m running the Cloud Zoo on Rhino 6? What will happen if my computer crashes, will I not be able to install Rhino 5 again even though I have bought a full license?
Hmm some people working on big project that needs V5
(Even saving a file will be annoying if your customer only has V5, as V6 will save default as V6, and ask you
do you really want to save to V5)
And as for the plugins that may have be bought becomes priceless is not so sweet…
Say if I owned a VSR with V5, I’d keep that and want to use and naturally think I can
as I’ve paid for it already. Why go to V6 when things may downgrade as a whole.
I currently don’t have any good plugins, but sustainability of rhino should be taken care of.
This has to be taken care by upgrade scheme. It’s fine one computer runs V5 or V6.
That should be taken care by mcneel. I thought that was what the online account thing was for…
Yep , but you got a 100 % new one.
Rhino 6 is just an update , may be 15 % is new , the rest is … Rhino 5
What is the problem to keep ability to use older version we paid for ?
I also have several plugins running in rhino 5 , and some , like TSplines , will never be updated.
You push many users to deadlock.
@Cyver I am in the same boat with t-splines and I even bought a spare copy of t-splines before they killed the sales just in case I need it for staff later. A product that is no longer supported or even has a forum but I make money out of it.
For me the solution appears to be to not upgrade but pay for a full license for me if I go to Rhino 6…which when I look at what I paid for t-splines twice, is pretty affordable for my business. The $500 difference in the terms of billing work is quite small.
I see others point of principal on this however and of course feel for those that the money is the issue.
The bad things - with a dysfunctional lincense scheme - spills over into many areas. For example,
When I develop an end application with Rhino5/GH as the “runtime engine” (whether visible to the user or not), I can’t continue selling copies if they cannot buy a R5 license (or if I cannot redistribute one).
Moreover, if they upgrade their license (if they already have a R5 copy) my R5 based application will not run due to expired license.
Guess who’s going to scratch their heads and wonder why you tamper with and prohibits access to other’s intellectual property? Who is tampering with who’s IM really?
This is the drawback and realities with developing development platforms.
A situation similar to this would be the following: Microsoft suddenly deying access to your Visual Studio 2015 simply because you upgraded to VS201. But then you’ld know exactly what kind of problem you have to avoid with Rhino.
It’s a no-brainer.
It should be very clear that a useful license model involves allowing to run ALL VERSIONS at the same time, if need be (simply because the nature of development and maintenance and support for end user applications requires that you are able - at all times - to examine and even debug any versions you have sent out to be running out in the wild).
I started application development using Rhino/GH on the premise that these problems would never destroy the whole idea.
So, I expect McNeel to regard things like this and not kill the very potential development platform you have and even better, have in the making.
The old version problem will not be a problem if you don’t make it a problem. Do instead like Borland/CodeGear/Embarcadero: Keep all old version available, and installable, and runnable at the same time, at all times. I never used a subscription scheme, but I still have 7 versions of Delphi, including upgrades, that all can be running at the same time, on the same or on different mahines (incl VM’s), becasue that’s how developers work, whether a single developer or a development team.
See screen shots below illustrates what I mean with having perpetual access to any old versions of development platforms (including upgrades).
This discussion makes me really nervous.
// Rolf
PS: I just logged in to my download and serical number list spanning from the late nineties until my last copy of Delphi (X5):
And page 2:
And several pages of Downloads of all versions, including related tools, patches and hotfixes and… (only one picture, but the whole text is about 160.000 chars). That’s how you treat developers depneding on your development platform
[Edit: Cutted down the long post]
My personal list of valid versions of the development software on my user account at Embarcadero was so big that it doesn’t fit into a post on this forum, but I stripped it down from 167.000 chars to only 32.000 chars, just to illustrate how serious providers of development platforms treat their customers. My last license was XE5 and the first which is registered on me personally is from 1999 something. I can install and run this simultaneously on any machine (of course the license keys are counted down at each installation, but why would Embarcadero care about WHERE the software runs, as long as the numer of licenses are within range, and valid)
I’m trying to prove an important point.
Here’s my very much reduced list:
My Registered User Downloads
RAD Studio to enable deployment of Delphi and C++ iOS applications to the Apple App Store. This applies to RAD Studio XE5, XE6 and XE7.
Available only to registered users of Delphi, C++Builder, RAD Studio XE5-XE7, and Embarcadero All-Access XE
06-Nov-14
Hotfix for InterBase XE3 library for iOS 8
16-Oct-14
Hotfix 6 for RAD Studio, Delphi, and C++Builder XE5 Update 2
Hotfix 5 for RAD Studio, Delphi, C++Builder XE5 Update 2
196.8K
18-Mar-14
< big snip >
Web Installer for Embarcadero RAD Studio 2010 (December 2009 release)
Embarcadero RAD Studio 2010 Disk 2 - Delphi Prism 2010 ISO
24-Aug-09
CodeGear RAD Studio 2009 Install from the Web
Installer for CodeGear RAD Studio 2009
Includes Delphi 2009, C++Builder 2009 and Delphi Prism 2009
June 2009 release - includes Delphi/C++Builder Updates 1-4 and Help Update 1
Available only to registered users of selected products, see item entry for more details
04-Jun-09
Server Response from: ETNACDC04
First, let me say that I think there’s a lot of misunderstanding in this thread.
Here’s the intent of the license agreement:
As far as installing Rhino 5 on a new computer, we want to work with you to make sure you can do everything you need to do to get your work done. We’re not trying to be draconian money-grubbing thieves that want you to stop using V3 or V4 or V5 if those products work for you.
If you have troubles with your licensing, please contact our sales team at sales@mcneel.com - they’re happy to help you get things working as quickly as possible.
This is one important statement we needed to hear.
This is actually also the attitude that I had expected from McNeel, although not from all the staff, of which some is capable of causing panic.
Thanks. Many many big thanks,
// Rolf
Can you clarify this in light of the fact that a single user license on one machine allows you to run as many simultaneous instances of the product on the machine as it will hold?
I’m assuming that using the “seat” concept, the user could simultaneously run an instance of each version on his single machine? Say, to facilitate copy/paste operations to give an example of why this would be desirable.
@AIW and others as i understand and as i’ve tested so far theres no big deal zoo cloud is checking if you are running rhino on one machine - i’ve seen the same licensing service for eg. with Quixel Suite - i use have one license it can be installed on pc A pc B and pc C you own ( in my case Laptop + Desktop so [A+B] ) - but only one of them can run Rhino at the same time - so if i’m going to swich from laptop to desktop im saving file and exit rhino and then i’m able to run rhino on desktop - if you try to runn both at once zoo will detect that and will ask you is you want to save work and will close rhino on its own and on second machine your ready to roll.
@brian do I understand this mechanism properly? - One thing i found out that when on cloud zoo ill pick desktop and then i want to run rhino on laptop but i don’t have internet connection it won’t let me run rhino so be sure before going to client you have logged in on mobile pc to reserve seat for mobie machine 
btw. this is bit irritating couldn’t there be any “safety run” cause many of us can forget about that when in hurry - i don’t have idea how it could be done maybe - rhino could open in “viewer only mode” ??? I’m just thinking loud.
I’ve never met meet somebody who can operate 2 or more instances of Rhino at the same time (aside from letting Rhino run to render in one instance, while modeling in another). It’s totally fine to open Rhino as many times as you want on your computer. Anything else seems a bit silly. It’s totally fine to have several models open for reference, for copy/paste, whatever - even if its multiple instances of Rhino 4, 5, and 6.
What you are not allowed to do is to install Rhino 4 on your computer, Rhino 5 Upgrade on your coworkers computer, and Rhino 6 Upgrade on you other coworker’s computer and have all three of you use that single “seat” (or license grouped together by upgrade history) at the same time.
It’s even more elegant than that. If your license is in your personal Cloud Zoo entity (the one with your name, not another team), then you can do the following:
You do need an internet connection the first time you start Rhino on any computer to login, but once you have done so Cloud Zoo does not require you to be constantly connected to the internet–you will stay logged in in Rhino on that computer (even if you close Rhino) so you don’t have to worry about needing to reserve a seat. Of course, the system is new and improvements will need to be made, but this is our design goal.
I think one of the real scenarios will be the user that has one V5 license, installed on multiple computers (say a desktop and a laptop) as was allowed by the licensing agreement if Rhino wasn’t run simultaneously on both machines. Now, the user wants to upgrade to V6, and put the V6 license in their Rhino (cloud) account so it can be used on both machines.
I’m assuming this should work ok, the V5 key and e-mail being enough to install and validate the V6 upgrade in the cloud and the result being that the user can use both V5 and V6 on either machine (but not at the same time).
Is my interpretation of the procedure correct in this case?
Thx, — Mitch
Mitch, I have one V5 license and V5 installed on two computers (desktop and laptop). I purchased a V6 upgrade license and installed V6 on both computers, and can now run V5 and/or V6 on either computer but not at the same time) using the Cloud Zoo.
However, yesterday I was told by both John Brock on the forum and Janet (I think that was the name) at McNeel Sales that I will not be able to install V5 again, for instance on a replacement computer, unless I install the (LAN/VPN) Zoo and then contact McNeel Sales to have the V5 and V6 licenses moved to the (LAN/VPN) Zoo.
