Hidden display mode causes Window/Crossing selection to miss objects

When using the Hidden display mode installed by VisualARQ, Window and Crossing selection can miss visible objects.

This initially looked like a deletion problem: after selecting an area and deleting it, some objects remained. Repeating the selection after zooming in revealed additional objects that had been missed by the previous Window/Crossing selection.

SelAll selects the objects correctly.

Switching from Hidden VA to a standard Rhino display mode makes the same Window/Crossing selection work correctly.

The issue persisted even after reinstalling VisualARQ.
I also found this older report from 2018 describing very similar behavior, including the dependency on zoom level:
Item-Selection in Hidden Mode

Hi @badileanu,

We’ve just fixed some related issues in VisualARQ 3.12 RC2. You can check the changes and download it from this post: VisualARQ 3 - Version 3.12 RC3 released

There may still be some objects that aren’t selected when doing a cross or window selection, but that’s not a bug, it’s an intentional feature. Hidden display mode is mainly used for working in plan or section views with cut planes. For example, if you’re working on the second floor and the slab hides objects from lower levels, it would be uncomfortable to have those invisible objects selected. We tried enabling selection for them, but it made working in plan view nearly impossible, especially when annotating or moving furniture.

In VisualARQ 3.12, we improved selection so objects that should be visible but are occluded because another object is drawn using the same pixels (like two coincident curves) will now both be selected.

Please test VisualARQ 3.12 and let me know if now it works better for you.

Enric

Hi @enric

I understand the intention behind this, and I agree with it. If I am working on the second-floor plan, I generally don’t want a crossing selection to unexpectedly grab objects that are hidden underneath the slab on another level.

At the same time though, I understand the @badileanu 's point, because selection does not currently seem to behave consistently as a level-based restriction. So should we understand that this selective behaviour is an intentional part of Hidden mode? And if we actually want to select everything, should that require a different display mode, or would it make more sense to give the user control over this and eventually connect it to a selection scope?

There have been numerous times when I click on something while working on one floor and end up selecting an object from another level. Maybe I am wrong about how this currently works, but my impression is that selection itself is not constrained to the active level — Hidden mode simply prevents certain occluded objects from being selected. Please correct me if this is not the case.

This also brings up another question: does every object have a reliable association with the Building/Level it belongs to that VisualARQ can query? I know the level constraints/magnets already establish some relationship between geometry and levels, but I am not sure whether this effectively gives every object an explicit level identity.

If the intention is to let us work cleanly within a specific architectural context, maybe this could evolve into an actual selection scope, independent from visibility:

  • Current Level

  • Visible Levels

  • Current Building

  • Current Space / Room

  • Active Section

  • Entire Model

And possibly a similar scope for snapping as well.

For example, while working on Level 2, I could choose to see Level 1 as a reference but prevent both selection and snapping to it. Or while editing something inside a section, selection could optionally be limited to objects contained in / intersecting that section.

Rhino already has Selection Filters and Named Selections, but what I am thinking about is slightly different: VisualARQ-aware, rule-based selection scopes or selection sets, based on BIM/spatial information rather than only object type or manually saved objects.

This feels to me like it could make architectural modelling considerably cleaner, especially as models become larger.

Does this make sense architecturally with how Levels, Buildings and Spaces currently work internally?

Hi Gabriel,
I agree with the general idea. I think a BIM-aware selection filter would be very useful, although I would try to keep it simple enough for everyday use.

VisualARQ already has some useful object-based selection tools, so I think there is a good foundation for this.

I’ll open a separate Wish with a more specific proposal, since this is probably a different topic from the Hidden display issue.

Update: I opened a separate Wish here: [BIM-aware pre-selection filter for VisualARQ objects]

Hi Enric,

I tested the same case with RC3 and can confirm that the issue is fixed. Window/Crossing selection now works correctly in Hidden VA. Thanks!

One small observation: I only found out that RC3 was available from your reply here. I have “Check for updates every time VisualARQ is loaded” enabled, and even “Check for updates now” reported that my version was up to date.

It would be useful to have a clearer notification when a new RC/update is available, rather than having to discover it through the forum.

This issue, which also occurred in display modes other than Hidden, was one of several selection-related problems I fixed in version 3.12.

Enric

Yes, I’m aware. Our current update system is limited and does not support “release channels” like Rhino. Many users prefer to stay in the “Stable” channel and skip release candidate versions.

We are currently designing a new update system for VisualARQ 4 (and Lands 7). My idea is to have at least four different channels: WIP/BETA, RC, Stable, and LTS.

After some thought, I think I can put together a quick implementation in VisualARQ 3 to support notifications for the RC versions, but I can’t make any promises.

Enric

Correct

Yes. If you want to select objects that are hidden by other objects, use a different display mode than the Hidden one.

This is feasible. VisualARQ objects don’t have a property or parameter that indicates the level where they belong or they are located, but this can be detected based on the object elevation. Check this out: Select objects by level | Food4Rhino

We could develop a tool for search&select objects based on object’s type, style, level, parameter, etc… This feature is in our wish-list so I add your vote.

Well, when activating the Plan Reference View of a level while working on another, that reference view is locked (so it is not possible to select the 2D lines of it). But avoiding the snap is something that I’m not sure if it’s possible. Why would you need to see the plan view reference of hidden levels but not snapping on it?

Isnt that what Get Level gh component does? Or you mean exposed parameter in rhino for queries?

Yes, we could expose the Level where an object is located in the Properties panel, so you could list it in tables, for example.

this is very useful, if they were exposed