oh okay, you are right. Seems that I was lost in translation. I didn’t get that emu feather joke, but reading the full story about that jaguar made things clear. From that point of view it is rather funny 
. So I have to apologise for my first and last sentence in my last post.
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… I pretty disillusioned now. Emus won’t like to hear it, but homogenous coating makes indeed sense, for the same reason as we do class A. Just didn’t know that emus need to be harmed for this. I might switch over to class Z modelling now. You don’t need to upgrade surface data to class A, if designers kill emus, that will make all the environmental improvements of the past questionable. Upcoming electronic cars have a very high crapness factor anyway. Working class Z also allows me to make use of machine learning, since there is nothing to learn about. Some preview: Check out this awesome Volvo concept. (I actually like Volvo very much, but come on…)
Yeah Tom, joking around can he hard over text and asynchronously. Also I take responsibility for my sarcasm here. I do appreciate the dialog and I value the work of world-class surfacing folks like you.
Also, I’m not sure emu’s are getting killed for this. Maybe just a bit butt-hurt when the emu feather Master plucks a few feathers out for a specially commissioned tool? 
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You’re talking to me? Certainly not, no? I said nuthin!
That said, right after Ferrozzo, I’m the best Class B-Z modeller between Kiruna and Ystad. My gaps are as wide as those of Grand Canyon. My smallest angle ever achieved was 23°. My best model was a cube with six sides. So I keep talkin’ the walk and walkin’ the talk ; )
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no not you, I was pissed about that emu feather, and the comments to it. But reading gustojunk jaguar post again painted a complete different picture and it was actually funny. I just made fun about your class z comment. 
Uh…now I might be lost in translation, TomTom. My electric (electronic?) cars have been the best ever. (reasons left intentionally blank) I think they may even have class A surfaces…
I’m actually a bit surprised to learn about such tolerances being aimed for. back in time I was a CNC operator and the machine tolerances were within +/-0.004 mm for “big” milling machines (with like 1000x3000 mm tables). I’m not sure if they have so very much tighter tolerances today, but I doubt it differs much (at these tolerances and dimensions even a slight fluctuation in temperature in the room - like when someone opens the doors to the machine hall - will send you off far out of tolerance due to the length extension of the material of the milling machine itself.
If we’re talking about even bigger surfaces than the above, then the machining tolerances will be a tricky thing to solve, and worse yet, the vibration problems when a machine has to “stretch itself” over long distances or large surfaces. Portal machines adresses the big overhang problem, but there are cases where portal machines aren’t always very useful, like when only a long (robot) arm can actually reach the point to be machined. I’ve been involved with helping production facilities solve such overhang/vibration problems tending to produce ripples on large surfaces. But sometimes only the human hand and eye can do the final perfection of large surfaces. Like for example this Nautor’s Swan sailing boat. The picture was sent to me recently (July 17th) by my brother which is deeply involved with making the hulls (injection and coal fiber technology) and finer details for these multi million dollar sailing boats. Only the human eye will reach the final perfection in cases like this :
It looks like they kind of “pixelated” the Swedish flag there, but for some reason this is actually the desired design. This Nautor’s Swan is leaving the hull division in Kållby and heading for the assembly hall (of the interior wood work, all the tech stuff etc) near the harbor in Jakobstad, Finland.
I guesstimate this boat to cost between 50 and 100 times more than the most expensive Jaguar car models. Only extremely picky people buy these things, and they complain about exactly everything, and they also can afford to have you to modify just about everything half ways through the production phase at the additional cost of xx million dollars extra, just to demonstrate that they can afford it.
You gotta hold the sander in the right hand, have the toungue in the right mouth and have a sensitive eye when perfecting these surfaces. 
// Rolf
Will the static charge in the emu feather brush attract the Eider Down I use for polishing my mouse ball?
I’m actually a bit surprised to learn about such tolerances being aimed for.
I think the 0.02mm is the overall tolerance for industrial fabrication. This includes milling the “negative” shape plus deviation based on the molding process plus painting etc. But as I said, I only know the number not the full process behind, and its just because you sum up all tolerances, which means everyone in the chain should work as precise as possible. That is why we work in the area of 0.002mm, but modifying shapes even more precise, although this sounds weird for people not involved…
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electric cars I mean(Tesla etc.). I’m not allowed to talk about on-going development. I just think they all have a problem of design. Just google BMW i3, you will rather see such crap in the future rather than a BWW i8 (I’m working for another german car brand)
From what I’ve heard Volkswagen has the best cad designers in the industry
if you know this from Volkswagen, you should ask epa for a second opinion 
…probably because of having 12 people in the food chain above, telling 3 cad designer what to do. Surviving this chaos makes you elite somehow, yes 
I’m with ya @tomtom. Just throwing you softballs.
‘DeNile’ ain’t just a river, it’s a dangerous thing. (ask VW)
The “euro” car chiefs tried denial, only to see their S class and 7 series sales get whacked. Firstly, one has to admit one has a problem. At least they recently got there.
The “problem” you refer to is of a A-B-C three step nature. We are on step B. One must pass B to get to C. C is coming. Those remaining at A and B will diminish at best, and perish at worst.
The i3 is a perfect step B example. Manufacturing marvel with the appeal of burnt toast. Shit happen. The future is not easy. Here, dealers were so desperate they begged prospects to take the car home for a week. That only made matters worse IMO.
So the Cali Dudes, having decimated the euro flagships, have progressed to roll-out of the C and 3 series killer(s). It may hurt pride to wake up and realize one may have become the tail of the dog, but competition good. Pendulums can swing either way. Remains to be seem whether the Dudes land the moon shot or crash on the pad or burst in orbit.
The Big 2 1/2 can’t really get out of their own way either, sans perhaps the Volt, which is the pedestrian i8, but Volt, as stellar as it is, is a step B product, as is the i8. Both at two ends of a spectrum.
The Euro chiefs appear focused now (past BS aside), as you allude. The next 20 years will be mind blowing, with all the problems you lament solved. And when the dust settles, stunning winners and loosers…
BRING IT ON! 
‘DeNile’ ain’t just a river, it’s a dangerous thing. (ask VW)
so true, I’m actually shocked at which level of arrogance Volkswagen tries to solve its problems. This makes things even worse. Now we focus so much in terms of electric revolution, but not because of inspiration(you can indeed debate if its that much greener, but its a step in the right direction). No, it is just a reaction to a very fast changing market. This way of thinking is dangerous. A lot of my workmates think the crisis is also a result of an informal economic war between Germany and USA. But I think this is a rather simplified view. Cheating is cheating, and my grandfather would cry if he sees how people nowadays develop such an dishonoured mentality. Made in Germany was always build onto quality.
There is hard competition now, but the problem is the way people relax on fruits of the past, having lost their motivation. Nowadays a lot of people come to Volkswagen to have a high income for 35 h a week. But only a few are really motivated. Its the wrong type of people we have. This leads to a situations where work is delegated, not done anymore. I was not exaggerating by saying 12 people decide, 3 people work. We all know it should be the other way. This is a fact in many modern industries and this can only lead to trouble. Seems practical by having so many deciders in a company, because no one is responsible anymore… Bad design is the result of wrong mentality.
So I am personally thankful for this crisis, because I really hope there is a change. I just hope, that its not the wrong people who have to pay for it. Because if so, this will be the beginning of the end then. … So we will see, I’m rather optimistic though.
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Deer in the headlight reaction when one either does not know what to do or is afraid to do right.
Prefer to frame as healthy competition. As in all competitions, there is a winner and a looser. And of course, if we just sit on our hands, eventually another squirrel will come along and steal our nuts.
(somehow this related to - Helping Rhino3D is damage to Rhino3d - right?)
With 0.073% global passenger vehicle sales share and ever growing cash burn, Tesla is going nowhere, like SolarCity that was buried inside the company in November before bankruptcy. Tesla, after Elon Musk stole it from its founders, never made a profit and has to rely on constant equity and debt sales to finance itself. FCF and OCF are constantly negative. Nearly $1 billion that helped keep the doors open come in via ZEV and GHG credit sales. Where subsidies are cut back, sales collapse. This year, Tesla’s annual cash burn is expected to grow beyond $1 billion, while warranty and repair expenses go through the roof, due to the ramshackle build quality of its cars - panel gaps you can wedge the LA Times weekend edition into.
In the end, because of its long-term thinking, the winner in the EV space was and is Toyota - until in around 10 years, Chinese manufacturers take over and clean Europeans’ and Americans’ clocks.
Sayonara ; )
This is well within the range of possibilities, yet stranger things have happened.
The farm is being bet by a dude with balls of steel, a mind easy to envy, and an audacious plan, however one chooses to frame +/- of the path taken.
The farm is either going to eventually produce a bumper crop, or it will fail…
Nothing automation and a global conflict can’t solve.
You heard it here first…
Good questions give good answers
Before fully wasting it in a completely unimportant thread, I also like to share my “super single span example curve” here, with degree of 60 in order to prove that Rhino can even produce “class A shapes” beyond the capabilities of any true class A modeller like Surf or Alias 
It is not(!) multispan and its curvature graph is quite alright (not expected).
It was made by unit testing an self-build linear least square approximation algorithm last year:
(I do know that this is absolutely pointless, just in case someone doesn’t get it)
I’ve come to think of Rhino like a high maintenance hottie:
If you treat her right (read the way she demands) which is a real pain in the ass sometimes, she will perform for you admirably…
I’m increasingly reminded that, when I do follow ‘the rules’, Rhino does indeed perform. It is following those often necessary (especially down stream), but not always, time consuming rules and extra steps/recreations where the consternation comes from. Exasperated when ‘that other’ software allows me to break those rules worry free.
Sort of like getting away with being a fat beer guzzling slob, etc., and still getting what you need from the not-so-hottie.
In the finale analyses, at this point in time, life without Rhino is too painful to contemplate.