Future of Rhino - ARM you ready to Jump?

Anecdotal observation is not evidence.

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Over 3 years of constant use isn’t ‘anecdotal’.
You can easily kill my point by giving an example of large design studios: architectural, automotive, marine running on macs. Not the jewelry, kitchen appliances or anything like this but some more complex stuff and I will apologize.

3 years of use of your computer is anecdotal.
Pro tip: If you don’t like macs, use a pc.

Grow up.

guys. please keep it informing.
dont make another pc/mac war out of it.


I agree.
I was trying to keep the discussion on topic, but failed miserably.
Fwiw, I am a pc user, but very interested in Apple’s development in chip design.

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All designers “steal” from each other - which is ok, as long as you’re not directly copying. It only means being inspired by earlier, great design(er)s. Dieter Rams is surely one of the best to be inspired by.


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I can highly recommend both @Philip and @diff-arch to watch a documentary called “Objectified”. It contains a Rams interview where he specifically mentions Apple, and it’s not negative.

(What is negative, though, is Apple’s mission to seemingly turn their desktop computers into iPhones… killing OpenGL, not even supporting Vulkan, and switching to ARM. There’s only been crickets around their commitment to open standards and open source lately, dedicated security hardware and notarization requirements turning their platform into not so much a walled garden but a Berlin wall, and their previous MacOS release having more security popups than the Vista they once mocked. There was a round of professional (including CAD) software makers who publicly ditched Apple when they killed OpenGL… I wonder if we’re going to see another round now, especially with no discrete GPU hardware… on the other hand, Rhino might be one of the few left, so maybe they can grab a larger marketshare, even though the size of the Apple market surely is miniscule compared to the PC, since Apple lost the desktop wars decades ago.)

Absolutely, like Picasso, T.S. Eliot, Steve Jobs, or whoever else said it first - proclaimed; “Good artists copy, great artists steal”, so technically what I wrote above was a compliment, not an insult.

I’ve already seen it. Neither was my comment above, you guys just wanted to project negativity into it, it seems.

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I see myself rather of the neutral type of person regarding Apple products, which seem to be rare these days. Apple has really good products but of course they also cost.

What I really don’t like about them is the fact that just because I’m german I have to pay 30 % extra for “localisation” reason. And they even not paying taxes here… But that’s the same regarding cars and clothes. But at least they are not always 100 % the same product. That 30 % extra is what made me switch to an Android phone this year although I really like iOS.

Just to come back to my initial thought. I could think of paying the extra money, but it really needs to work out for my use case. And as long as this is not there, I rather invest that extra money in my electricity bill. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Keep in mind that a good part of that 30% (more than half) is due to German VAT, as american prices are before sales taxes (which are different, sometimes absent from state to state)
Still international prices of apple products (and many other tech products for that matter) can make your blood boil, I am totally with you.
Just look of the shafting European customers get for paying through the nose for the 5g millimetre wave hardware, that is present only in the American iPhone 12…

There are now more complete Benchmarks for the M1 including Cinebench: https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/11/17/m1-benchmarks-proves-apple-silicon-outclasses-nearly-all-current-intel-mac-chips

It seems even a Macbook Air with M1 can hold itself against the current top of the line Macbook Pro with an i9 and a dedicated graphics card or is only slightly less powerful. And all that with no fan at all. Pretty impressive. Not that I would use Rhino on it, but for other things its good to have that kind of power in such a small device.

Looking forward to something bigger like an iMac with an M2 or something. Again I wouldn’t do Rhino and 3D rendering work on it just yet, just because there is more software choice for Windows in this field. But for everything else, its a compelling package for $999 (or even less for a Mac Mini).

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I can’t remember where (perhaps anandtech), they tested the power use of the M1 Mac mini and it uses around 30W during heavy load.

For something with that level of performance, to only be using 30W is astounding. The Intel Mac mini used over twice the energy for lower performance. So there’s plenty of scope for a higher end Mac mini within the same enclosure.

Once the M1 is scaled up, imagine what a 100W or 200W machine could do. Or a render farm of these Mac minis. Must be about the highest density and almost certainly the lowest energy performance you can get.

This is crazy… I’d love to see Rhino taking full advantage of this power. Imagine how a Metal/Silicon optimized Rhino version could perform on the current M1 (currently around 10W on the Air), or even on some future more powerful version.

I am excited :earth_africa::earth_americas::earth_asia:

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I value his opinion:


Some more good stuff for the weekend!

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