Following on from topic in the rhino windows forum -
1)please unhook the hard wiring of “enter” to the space bar and the right mouse button.
Fine if people want this as an option, or default - but why force it on those of us who would prefer it not to be like this?
Cheers
rabbit
For which reason?
-C-H-A-R-L-E-S-
Fair question.
With respect to item 1):
Because other software doesn’t do this. Why is this a reason? Because, for example, Photoshop and sketchup use the space bar by default for the pan command, and I would like to optionally configure rhino to do this.
This doesn’t mean those programs are “right” and rhino is “wrong” - I don’t think any programs should hard wire their shortcut keys to anything.
Why?
Because you are then second guessing what the user wants. We all use multiple software programs; some of them have similar kinds of commands - for example, cad programs, bitmap paint programs, video editing programs and even word processors all have some kind of zoom and pan commands - as a end user, I would like to configure all those programs to use the same keyboard shortcuts for the same kind of action. It just makes my life when working with a computer much easier. - I have many commands in rhino mapped to old generic cad shortcut keys, because I spent years working with that program so I could alsmost operate it in my sleep - it made the basic transition to rhino much easier for me.
The only short cuts that should be hard wired are the windows operating system - I trailed a specialist lighting design program some time ago, which had some very desirable features, but also some extremely poor hard coded choices as far as hot keys were concerned - for example control c & control v were mapped to some command in the program, and couldn’t be disabled.
The right mouse button is used in rhino not only for enter, but also for rotate view and a popup menu - despite clever programming to allow them to seperate out, this is just too much.
Why?
Because, as per my original post, I use both a mouse and a Wacom pen. The mouse I tend to use mainly for the scroll wheel, and the pen I use for everything else mouse related. However, when I want to rotate the view, and thus have to hold the right pen button down, it’s far too easy to fire the enter command, which then repeats the last command and all hell can break loose.
Naturally, I have added a number of “dangerous” commands to the "don’t repeat " list, but the solution is to allow me to configure my own right button click.
Why would that be a problem?
I personally think we need only one “enter” command key, and that should be on the qwerty keyboard where it is on every other windows program. In fact that makes two enter keys on any keyboard with extra numeric keys.
I don’t care if someone else wants to configure their rhino to have 20 enter commands all over the place - I just don’t want to be part of it.
with respect to item 2)
I’m all for a “repeat last command” macro - I just don’t want it hardwired to the enter key.
The enter key is a crucial windows key that says to all programs "ok, now do whatever it is that I have set up to happen"
As such, I’d prefer it to be left alone to do that one very important specific job.
(As a spoiled brat of a child I knew, when very young, when asked if he could spell his name, said “J - A - M - E - S - Enter” )
It’s just too easy to hit that key when repeating the last command is not at all what you want to happen.
If you want to assign that command to the enter key, go ahead, but why should I have to live with it?
In short, I would like to configure my own shortcut keys.
Rhino can ship by default with the key assignments exactly as they are now, but please let me optionally configure my own.
Is that too much to ask?
cheers
rabbit
Hi rabbit,
while I personally never had issues with Space/Enter etc., I agree.
Other programs also have crude hardcoded keycombinations, i.e. Space for pan.
And they are not configurable - not good.
In any case, Rhino should be better and leave it to the user what happens with Space and Enter.
-C-H-A-R-L-E-S-
No, I think full user-configurability is a good idea as well.
If you try blender, a total free software, you will notice the difference.
Not saying copy other software, but I don’t think people can ever learn or improve without “Copy.”
At least. Rhinoceros V7 should change the interface completely.
The way Rhino toolbar works right now is not pleasing…
Not sure if there is a person in Mcneel designs UI, but really need to take a look how Blender operates…
Maybe, we (all Rhino fans here) can contribute to this…
(No Autodesk interface, most of their interface is outdated…)
Mcneel needs NEW BLOOD…
as Wacom user I understand your need to customize everything… I use Wacom and never really touch my mouse for years. but I never accidentally execute “RMB repeat command” even when rotating in viewport. there is a big difference between RMB CLick (execute enter) and Holding RMB+hover around (rotate). try to hover your pen tip closer to the tablet to keep it connected all the time.
are you using Wacom Intuos or Cintiq?
if you are using the latest tablet, you can try to disable Touch mode and scroll wheel in your Tablet setting. that would prevent you to accidentally tap any key with your other hand.
the only problem I had when I first use wacom is accidental “drag” if you do double click. but I set a shortcut for double click on my tablet setting. but that only when I use 3dsmax.
one thing, you can always customize your wacom setting for alternate shortcut…
hope that helps.
Yes, the difference is in Blender nothing works as I feel it could work.
Without an introduction to the interface it is hard to impossible to do something.
The interface is better than years ago, but still very complicated and nothing is obvious.
This is my personal experience.
So not a good example to ‘learn’ from.
Why completely?
Better not.
-C-H-A-R-L-E-S-
This would be an endless debate between which software has the best UI.
judging whether this software has “bad UI” and that sofware has “good UI” really comes down to personal taste.
I am personally an Autodesk user. for years I ve always wanted rhino to have AD UI because that is the environment I am familiar with. but then I realized I was wrong. each software has their own unique UI and there is a reason why they do it that way.
so forcing rhino to follow AD or other software is not really the point here.
its better for Rhino to have its own Unique UI. most giant company will use multiple software anyway, having different variety of interface between software is good afterall.
3Dsoftware can become like a religion btw 
UI includes
The UI is not how a software looks, it’s about how a software feels to users.'
I’m not a blender user, but I can adapt to it very fast, simply by following a vid tutorial.
You can get an idea how it works… I personally don’t care much about UI except a couple of things in Rhino, but a modern software should feel differently.
A good demo here
AD does that way, not much change on their products simply because too many old users. Old (mindset) people don’t want to change. How Rhinoceros will look like doesn’t affect me at all. In fact, I never click icons in Rhinoceros, but after some thought, I felt that UI is important to new comers even for some old users…
New replaces old, that’s how mother nature works…
AD doesn’t change not because their users are all old - there are lots of students and young graduates learning/using AD products - but rather that their installed user base is positively HUGE, and their customers have invested lots of time and money in learning/training personnel/getting whole corporate CAD structures set up. So yes, AD (among other software companies with a large user base) are resistant to change because of the weight of this whole history/structure they are carrying - just as the Titanic wasn’t able to turn to port fast enough to avoid the iceberg…
–Mitch
@Helvetosaur
You right. Old users mean those people/firms that use AD products for years and decades. Certainly they don’t want to change, and new generations who use AD products have to follow because of market. But at the same time, young software companies or relatively small, besides AD I mean, can change future. Blender/Z-brush/Rhinoceros,to name a few, can change future, depending on how those companies grow. People/ companies who don’t want to change will eventually die…
AD does make a big change every 2 - 3 release,they introduce a new one but they still keep the old one as to make sure old user wont get confused.
the thing about AD product (in this case max and Maya) is that they have multiple windows for you to work on certain type of command. if you open 3dsmax or maya, what you see is the basic set up for basic modelling.
to access other window (for example Xgen Window in Maya) u need to find a description button to open Xgen Window
in 3dsmax (in 2013 if I remember correctly ) they introduce graphite modelling tool, brand new modelling toolbar. but the old UI is still there… the thing is if you dont enable the new toolbar you can only see the old one.
another example is material slate editor, a new editor for shading network but you can only access the new one if you click the correct button (if not you will see the old-style material editor).
in 2016 release AD introduce 3dsmax a brand new parametric modelling. again, only accessible if you know where to look.
there are tons of advanced stuff they keep adding every year, new algorithm, new system. but it would be invisible to new user.
but I do agree that there are several part in the system that for no reason they decide to keep it that way. u know it folks, how cumbersome it is to edit component pivot in 3dsmax without plug in (rappaTOol to the rescueeee)
and for years they havent changed Maya unit system. all physic simulation goes crazy when u change its default unit. they never address that since day one.
but apart from that I think they do a great job developing the software, and so does Rhino and Zbrush and Blender, and the rest of other awesome software outthere.