Detail Views - Camera Suddenly Very Far!

Currently having an issue with detail views. After noticing Pen mode not displaying properly in a previous thread (Pen Mode - Items Suddenly Transparent), I’ve been checking the camera position constantly when working to create detail views. In the case of this file, I’ll create the views required, check camera, position, and scale, then lock the detail.

Then I created the second page, detailing some parts, only to come back to the first page to find items with that same transparent look, and the camera (on locked views) several thousand inches away, causing the display depth bucket issue mentioned by Pascal.

What could be causing the camera on a locked view to fly off into space without input? It’s a little frustrating to create a bunch of views, only to have to chase down camera issues to make the print look good.

System Info

Rhino 8 SR6 2024-4-10 (Rhino 8, 8.6.24101.05001, Git hash:master @ 32c244aa711e0034e75bec2e87d093c764820b96)
License type: Commercial, build 2024-04-10
License details: Cloud Zoo

Windows 10 (10.0.19043 SR0.0) or greater (Physical RAM: 32GB)
.NET 7.0.18

Computer platform: DESKTOP

Standard graphics configuration.
Primary display and OpenGL: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (NVidia) Memory: 6GB, Driver date: 4-11-2024 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 552.22
> Accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Secondary monitor attached to adapter port 0
- Windows Main Display attached to adapter port 1

Secondary graphics devices.
Intel(R) UHD Graphics 630 (Intel) Memory: 1GB, Driver date: 6-1-2021 (M-D-Y).
> Integrated graphics device with 3 adapter port(s)
- There are no monitors attached to this device!

OpenGL Settings
Safe mode: Off
Use accelerated hardware modes: On
Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On
Graphics level being used: OpenGL 4.6 (primary GPU’s maximum)

Anti-alias mode: 4x
Mip Map Filtering: Linear
Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High

Vendor Name: NVIDIA Corporation
Render version: 4.6
Shading Language: 4.60 NVIDIA
Driver Date: 4-11-2024
Driver Version: 31.0.15.5222
Maximum Texture size: 32768 x 32768
Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits
Maximum Viewport size: 32768 x 32768
Total Video Memory: 6 GB

Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino

Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Commands.rhp “Commands” 8.6.24101.5001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\WebBrowser.rhp “WebBrowser”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk.rhp “Renderer Development Kit”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoScript.rhp “RhinoScript”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\IdleProcessor.rhp “IdleProcessor”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRenderCycles.rhp “Rhino Render” 8.6.24101.5001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRender.rhp “Legacy Rhino Render”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk_etoui.rhp “RDK_EtoUI” 8.6.24101.5001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\NamedSnapshots.rhp “Snapshots”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\MeshCommands.rhp “MeshCommands” 8.6.24101.5001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\IronPython\RhinoDLR_Python.rhp “IronPython” 8.6.24101.5001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoCycles.rhp “RhinoCycles” 8.6.24101.5001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Toolbars\Toolbars.rhp “Toolbars” 8.6.24101.5001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\3dxrhino.rhp “3Dconnexion 3D Mouse”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Displacement.rhp “Displacement”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\SectionTools.rhp “SectionTools”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\export_SVG.rhp “Export SVG” 8.6.24101.5001

Glass Corner Mockup - McNeel.3dm (1.6 MB)

Hi Scott - so far I do not see cameras that are very far away as in the previous case… which detail should I check, or even better, what steps should I take to make the problem appear?

-Pascal

They were set and locked, so they’re ok in the file that was sent; it was the process that somehow caused the camera placement. I’ll have to make a note to see when it happens; there didn’t seem to be any particular steps that lead to the issue. It seemed like one of:

  • adding a layout page
  • adding a detail
  • hiding/showing in detail
  • adding dimensions/leaders

I’ll do a little playing when I get a chance and try to reproduce it again.

I’ve just had a coworker start to complain of the same issue, when I went to check, the camera was something like 650000" away from the target.

I still can’t figure out what would be causing the camera position to keep changing even when you’re not changing the view - the orientation stays the same, but it’s almost like the camera is moving farther and farther away along the line between itself and the target.

Do you have any tips for trying to reproduce a problem that’s happening in a seemingly random way?

Right now, the best thing I can think of to do is to try to write a custom Python script that takes the camera and brings it to a more reasonable point.

Still trying to figure this one out.

  • I’ve started a new file with absolutely no template.

  • I’ve created a simple object of two cylinders intersecting; no floor plans of vastly different scale, no blocks, no user-created dimstyles, nothing.

  • Only update was to change the units to inches.

  • I created a Python script (which is probably clunky as all heck but I’m new to Detail manipulation with Python…) to record what the initial camera point and camera target point were, and place them next to the detail.
    ViewCheck.py (991 Bytes)

  • I locked all the details after creation.

  • On the second page that was created, I added a couple views, set one to Front, went back to “Paper Space”, and added a dimension in paper space. When I went back to check the cameras on Page 1, the Front and right views had changed their Y and X camera coordinates, respectively. The front view (lower left) had gone from Y=-99.5 to Y = -1449.7; the right view (lower right) had gone from X = 125.1 to X = 1475.4

System Info

Rhino 8 SR7 2024-5-17 (Rhino 8, 8.7.24138.15431, Git hash:master @ 03702f889bdef32626af4bca510b5e8a85666d38)
License type: Commercial, build 2024-05-17
License details: Cloud Zoo

Windows 10 (10.0.19043 SR0.0) or greater (Physical RAM: 32GB)
.NET 7.0.18

Computer platform: DESKTOP

Standard graphics configuration.
Primary display and OpenGL: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (NVidia) Memory: 6GB, Driver date: 4-11-2024 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 552.22
> Accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Secondary monitor attached to adapter port #0
- Windows Main Display attached to adapter port #1

Secondary graphics devices.
Intel(R) UHD Graphics 630 (Intel) Memory: 1GB, Driver date: 6-1-2021 (M-D-Y).
> Integrated graphics device with 3 adapter port(s)
- There are no monitors attached to this device!

OpenGL Settings
Safe mode: Off
Use accelerated hardware modes: On
Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On
Graphics level being used: OpenGL 4.6 (primary GPU’s maximum)

Anti-alias mode: 4x
Mip Map Filtering: Linear
Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High

Vendor Name: NVIDIA Corporation
Render version: 4.6
Shading Language: 4.60 NVIDIA
Driver Date: 4-11-2024
Driver Version: 31.0.15.5222
Maximum Texture size: 32768 x 32768
Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits
Maximum Viewport size: 32768 x 32768
Total Video Memory: 6 GB

Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino

Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Commands.rhp “Commands” 8.7.24138.15431
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\WebBrowser.rhp “WebBrowser”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk.rhp “Renderer Development Kit”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoScript.rhp “RhinoScript”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoLabsTools.rhp “Rhino Labs Tools”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\AnimationTools.rhp “AnimationTools”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\IdleProcessor.rhp “IdleProcessor”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRenderCycles.rhp “Rhino Render” 8.7.24138.15431
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRender.rhp “Legacy Rhino Render”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk_etoui.rhp “RDK_EtoUI” 8.7.24138.15431
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\NamedSnapshots.rhp “Snapshots”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\MeshCommands.rhp “MeshCommands” 8.7.24138.15431
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\IronPython\RhinoDLR_Python.rhp “IronPython” 8.7.24138.15431
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoCycles.rhp “RhinoCycles” 8.7.24138.15431
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Toolbars\Toolbars.rhp “Toolbars” 8.7.24138.15431
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\3dxrhino.rhp “3Dconnexion 3D Mouse”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Displacement.rhp “Displacement”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\SectionTools.rhp “SectionTools”

vtest.3dm (143.6 KB)

Hi Scott - see if this bug report adequately covers this:
RH-82390 Locked detail camera moves

-Pascal

1 Like

Much appreciated. Yes, I would say that covers it.

For the dev team:
I know (though haven’t got anything to show for it) that it’s not limited to Right-oriented views. It has happened on top, front, isometric, etc; it’s always an increase, and always seems to be outward along a vector between the target and the camera. (If it’s a top view, the Z will increase, if it’s a front view, the Y will (technically) decrease farther into the negative, if it’s an isometric, all of the X/Y/Z camera coordinates change respectively.

Detail orientation does not seem to matter.
Detail lock state does not seem to matter (happens even when locked)
I have seen 10’s of thousands, I’ve also seen 100’s of thousands (my coworker had one detail with a camera over 650000" away from the target). It does seem to be cumulative over time/# of operations, but it is not predictable in a way that I can see.
Pen mode settings do not seem to matter; happens even on the defaults.

As mentioned in our communications, it does not seem to be dependent on template - the vtest file was created with no template. It also does not seem to be related to object scale differences (a large floor plan with a tiny bolt assembly in a detail) - vtest file is one piece, no other blocks/geometry.

Setting the camera position manually temporarily fixes the display, but over time, it will creep back out. My coworker has created a script to reset the camera position as well, but has the same end result as me; it will creep back out again, in multiple details across multiple layouts.

The frustration comes when we have, potentially, a 40+ pg drawing set using entirely Pen mode detail views that are then annotated on the layout “in paper space” to use old AutoCAD terms. At the end of the job, we will have to go back and check potentially hundreds of details to make sure nothing strange is happening. Anecdotally, I have had issues where I fix one detail 10pgs in, only to have to go back and check from the start again.