Decals - tune up needed?


(Bob McNeel) #9

Ok. I tried it for a minute. It doesn’t seem like anything is different yet.

I guess my questions are around why aren’t we using standard Rhino UI controls. That is why do we need a non standard UI widget?

Can’t we use a plane or extrusion and allow the user to just use standard Rhino controls to place it and move it around? We do something like that with shut lines?


(Andrew le Bihan) #10

Like I said…this is an abandoned project. I agree the initial pick should be better. The code actually comes wholesale from Flamingo 2.0.

The positioning tools - after the initial placement - work,like the mapping widgets.


(Bob McNeel) #11

Ok. So I guess my question is about the mapping widget then.

Maybe I’m an idiot but I could not figure out how to get anything to land were I expected. All the widget UI just seemed odd and did unexpected things.

Again, why can’t be just use normal Rhino controls?


(Brian James) #12

I just filed some more decal issues after looking through the latest v6…

http://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-27548
http://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-27549
http://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-27550
http://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-27551
http://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-27552
http://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-27553
http://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-27556
http://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-27558
http://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-27560
http://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-27561
http://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-27562


(Bob McNeel) #13

Thanks!


(Andrew le Bihan) #14

Bob

OK - I would ideally like to work through this in real time so I know exactly what you’re talking about. How about Thursday evening? Sharing screens and seeing exactly what you’re doing would be very useful.

Since the new decal interface is unfinished, maybe it would be better to start by talking about the planar mapping widget instead - since that is already in V5 and “complete”. Draw anything, use a bitmap material of some sort, and then use the texture mapping object properties page to add planar mapping to the object. Does this work the way you would like it?

Now, select the object and turn the mapping widget on. This allows you to edit the existing mapping - and this is the important distinction. The widgets allow you to edit - the picking tools allow you to define new planes.


(Bob McNeel) #15

That looks like a big improvement. There are many details that I still don’t get but they are minor. For example, what are all those controls and any what do the do? For example, I tried clicking the Lock boxes and neither seemed to do anything. Also, there are some very odd labels, like “>[] <”.

BTW, the default material seems to have gone missing.


(Andrew le Bihan) #16

OK - we can talk about all of the controls on the properties page if you’d like, but my understanding is that we’re currently discussing the interactive - ie, “in viewport” UI for the decals vrs the mapping widget. Is that correct? If so, I would like to leave the properties page and the default material out of it.

Feel free to start separate discussions for those.

Notice that once you have created a planar decal using the new system, the mapping widget and planar decal widget are pretty much identical. Do you agree that this part of the UI is good?

If so, then we are only talking about the initial picking phase of the decal picking. I agree that this is non-standard and awkward. If the picking is changed to something similar to the initial mapping picking, would this be a “big improvement”?

  • Andy

(Pascal Golay) #17

This seems OK to me but I wonder if on ‘Edit Placement’, the widget should have its points on already? Also, I guess this is for Mikko, but when we’re all done the Gumball set to Object should align to the decal widget plane - it is probably easiest, most of the time to just use the gumball?

For placing a planar decal to begin with, can we steal Dale F’s current Picture UI?

-Pascal


(Andrew le Bihan) #18

There are cases when you just want to shift the decal around - not actually resize it. In that case, you will want the points off.

I always thought that in Rhino, “PointsOn” was rather difficult to discover. It took me a couple of years to release, for example, that there were points for spotlights. Could this be an instance of that problem?

Should there be a more obvious way - in the viewport - of turning points on for an object?

  • Andy

(Bob McNeel) #19

I’ve often wondered if we needed to redesign the “Points on” concept. For many objects, it seems like the points could automatically be on when the object is selected. But, at the same time, clicking anywhere else on the object should work just like the points were off.

I’m not sure how this would feel, but it might be worth a try.


(Pascal Golay) #20

That gets into another possible can of worms, but yes, it would be good to think about that. Auto points on (Bob’s comment) seems like it is worth a try.

As for decals, I find Gumball on the widget is the most natural way to make most adjustments.

-Pascal


(Vanessa Steeg) #21

I like this idea, it actually makes sense.


(Andrew le Bihan) #22

Decals are now ready for another round of discussion. There have been some major improvements to the workflow.


V6 Goal: Decals tuned up
(Andrew le Bihan) #23

http://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-28444


(Brian James) #24

Small question… is the arrow direction of the widget backwards or am I misunderstanding what this direction means?


(Andrew le Bihan) #25

It has to do with the direction of the normals. If the normals match the arrow direction, the decal will show.


(Brian James) #26

I see, I was thinking this was the direction the decal projects at the model. Maybe the ‘forward’ and ‘backward’ choices when setting up the decal need to be renamed to make this more clear.


(Brian James) #27

The workflow is overall much improved with decals. I’d like to see a maintain aspect ratio option though and filed this request…
http://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-28458


(Pascal Golay) #28

On the cylindrical decal widget, I noticed a couple of things -

  • there are a lot of points that change the diameter- I can see how this might be useful in that the opposite side of the cylinder stays put but it seems like too many- one more prominent handle to change diameter might be more useful and less confusing, unless anchoring one side is really important.
    Edit: I’ve been messing with this a bit more- @johnc, the cylindrical controls are really very hard to use. Apart from the above, there needs to be some way to constrain to the image aspect ratio.

  • in general, there are too many points and no indication of where they are in space- they all draw on top and look the same so in many views there is no way to tell what is going to happen when you drag one.

  • the axis points, top and bottom, can only move vertically as far as I can see, but they go through the motions of being moved any old way. I’d prefer they were constrained throughout the process if they are constrained in the end - e.g. Gumball arrows that are perp to the axis should not move the points.

  • Undo on any point edit on the decal widget does not redraw the points as they were- they stay in the edited positions.

  • I don’t see a way in the UI to turn off the decal widget. Esc works.

  • I’d make adding a decal the same (+ symbol in the list) as for textures and materials.( I see John C’s comment about this being hard to do is this dialog - OK- I don’t know of it is worth any particular level of effort, but to me it seems quite odd.)

still poking…

-Pascal