Creamy and Crunchy SubDs

I will change the names of the commands from Crunchy/Creamy/CreamCrunchySwap will change SubDDisplayFlat/SubDDisplaySmooth/SubDDisplayToggle.

The names “Box”, “Cage”, and “Smooth” are used by existing Rhino commands and are not available.

If SubDs are selected when the SubDDisplay… command is run, then only their appearance of the selected SubDs will change. If no SubD objects are selected when the SubDDisplay… command is run, the appearance of every SubD will be changed…


Muchas Gracias :pray:t4:


Gracias por tus buenos comentarios.


Sorry for my bad comments! I guess Don Martin was not my best English teacher. However, SWAP also works well for me, specially when two items change position like in SwapUV or SwapMeshEdge. But that’s not the reason why I never used HideSwap or LockSwap :wink:

You could always keep Crunchy/Creamy/CreamCrunchySwap as secret names like how FLowAlongSrf has Sporph :smiley:

We understand the requests to make the TAB key a “hot-key” to toggle SubD display. But these are coming from SubD users who are a small subset of all Rhino users.

I’ve added a bug to investigate making TAB a hot-key that users can configure. (the same way we let users configure function keys).


Hi, Michael,

Your comments were far from bad, you just got outvoted this week. Terms like “Cage” and “Box” are already commands in Rhino and we thought it would be confusing for new users who have never used other SubD modeling products. “Flat” seemed a little more of an accurate description than “Coarse”.

But, every week is an experiment. We’ll see how this flies. Thank you for helping us design the Rhino user experience.


The shading bug in SubDDisplayFlat is fixed in this week’s WIP


Maybe it’s just me, but if find it a little ironic that the “Creamy” and “Crunchy” terms were shot down because the naming wasn’t professional enough in a surfacing software called “Rhinoceros”.


Also I like “Flat” because we have “flat shading” as a display option for the render/display meshes and it means the same - no smoothing. So, it’s good to remember.


Well, at work, when I began explaining to people that in Rhino, there’s a great plugin called Grasshopper… and to use that plugin you can have add-ons like Pufferfish, Sasquatch, Wombat and Parakeet… and you download those from a site called Food4Rhino…

Yeah, you bet there were many laughs and people having a difficult time taking it seriously…


The Titanic was a serious name, and look what happened to that. I’d bet you anything it would have arrived in New York safe and sound had it been called the RMS Rubber Ducky.


Haha, but funny names are all fun and games until you pull your hair out because you can not for the love of god remember what it is called, because it makes no logical sense.

If Ferrari chose to call their manifolds for “airforks” and fuel-tanks for “plasticstomachs” then I think a lot of users would have wondered what they were all about :wink:


Hi @dalelear , first I appreciate that the new commands start with SubD… now. This is what I’m used to and how I find what I’m looking for. I don’t care how you call it in the end, but creamy/crunchy already is legend :wink:

However, I guess this thread is not just about the naming. So let me add some thoughts about functionality. Of course we need to be able to switch between creamy and crunchy, so this is not the question. What I notice is a new behavior and I guess this is what you want to discuss? It is hard to describe these things but I’ll try to explain anyways:

Now there is a sticky* Rhino setting for the SubD display which every new SubD object gets, and there are sticky SubD object display settings (*sticky means a temporary setting which lasts during the current Rhino session / file).

The new SubDDisplay commands work different if SubD Objects are pre-selected: If no SubD object is selected then these commands set or toggle the sticky Rhino SubDDisplay setting which affects new SubD objects. If SubD-objects are selected, then just these objects get or toggle the display setting accordingly. The Rhino settings are not affected. Thus it may happen that you copy a creamy subd object and get the crunchy object and vice versa. This is not intuitive and may cause confusion.

I think it does not need the sticky Rhino setting. One command based on objects selection should work for all scenarios: SubDDisplay(Display=[Toggle Creamy Crunchy] All)
Copies of SubD objects should also copy the current display state.

Just an idea, feel free to ignore or change names to your liking.

Thanks, Jess

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I know, I know. But this stuff is just for the duration of the concept phase. Although “gumball” stuck, so I understand the unease.


The "glob"

Imagine the reactions when they attempted to call this building in Stockholm for the “glob” (but eventually they repented in sack and ashes and named it the Globe):

// Rolf

I believe the Smooth/Flat modes are most intuitive and do not leave much to interpretation. The are also similar to Smooth/Box modes used in Clayoo.

There’s a lot of Clayoo subD tools and features that, if implemented with McNeel’s militant attention to stability and accuracy, would be really great. Honestly if the Clayoo/RhinoGold devs had just made Clayoo work without being crashy and a memory hog, and with the Rhino gumball’s full feature set and the ability to use Rhino osnaps, McNeel wouldn’t need to do it’s own SubD

Hi, Jess,

In a discussion we had in office yesterday afternoon, several people made points similar to yours. Internally today we are experimenting with a simpler approach and one that ignores current selection states. Next Tuesday’s WIP will be different and current selection states will almost certainly be ignored.

We need better understandings of various workflow/modeling/editing issues people are experiencing while modeling complicated subds and why they need flat/smooth/both to solve those issues.


Two workflows where Flat mode is very useful:

  1. To achieve a desired curvature from a portion of a complex SubD object, go to flat mode, draw a guide line or a curve and move edges or vertices so they’re all on the line or curve. This also works with moving control points, but, it’s easier in many cases to use flat mode because you can subselect straight edges and see their vector easily.

  2. To refine complex junctions, it’s often handy delete and rebuild faces in different combinations of quads, triangles, pentas and hexes. They pull differently. The only circumstance where I might want more than a simple global toggle is here: a viewport toggle would be handy. Easier to see what your doing in a flat viewport, realtime results in a smooth one.

I think if theres going to be an object toggle, it should be a separate command entirely, so a user intending to use global toggle can’t accidentally to an object toggle. Same for viewport toggle.