ClippingDrawings - mechanism of update (how ?)

[Tom_P]

I am wondering, how are the geometries (mainly curves and hatches) of ClippingDrawings identified, if they are updated.
Or in other words, if I run UpdateClippingDrawings the old stuff is identified (how ?), deleted or replaced.
I am asking because I think it s a great pity, that the ClippingDrawing is not in Layoutspace, but Modelingspace - and I would like to see a workaround - and hopefully a future option - to have the drawing in layoutspace - on a page.

@rajaa @mary
thanks for some info.

there are other topics / wishes that target the same:

WISH: ClippingDrawings to Layout

Hi, @rajaa and Team. Is it possible to make placement of the ClippingDrawing directly to the Layout space? I understand, we can play around with Layers in V8, hiding it from the Model space, etc. But it would be great just to have the ability to bypass these manipulations. Something like an additional option for command line Placement=Model/Layout.

Vector Output - a wish

Hello, I don’t often document projects in Rhino so I just realized that the only way to vector output a drawing is in display mode wireframe. All other including Technical and Rendered output only in raster. This renders (no pun intended) the documentation of 3-dimensional pretty useless. Am I missing something? Is this in the roadmap? Is there a specific reason why this is not possible? N

[wim (Wim Dekeyser)]

Hi Tom -

@Tom_P

Or in other words, if I run UpdateClippingDrawings the old stuff is identified (how ?), […]

This sounds like a developer or scripting question. Are you writing code to put the output on a layout?

@Tom_P

there are other topics / wishes that target the same:

I’ve put the feature request on the list as RH-85494 ClippingDrawings: Place Output on Layout
-wim

[Tom_P]

@wim

This sounds like a developer or scripting question. Are you writing code to put the output on a layout?

I am hoping to find a workaround, to have the drawings in layout space.
if the workaround requires scripting - i will code something - yes.
if the workaround does not require scripting - even better.

[rajaa (Rajaa Issa)]

@Tom_P

drawing in layoutspace

If I understand you right, you would like to have the drawing inserted as a “detail” in layout without showing in model space?

Basically do the following:

• When run the ClippingDrawings command, have an option to insert a new detail for the drawing in the selected (or active) layout/page, and place the section inside that detail?
• Behind the scene, place the section drawings in some default location in model space (perhaps at origin)
• Hide the drawing layers in model space,
• Show the drawings layers in layout space,

Is that how you envision it?

@mary posted detailed background about why the drawing should be placed in model space. Here is the summary:

“…Because the Rhino 8 section drawing represents the full size model it belongs in the model space. It can be arranged on the layout with detail views.”

See the full text below

Layout Scaling R7

O.t. Makes total sense, from my humble user’s point of view. My mantra: 2D works should happen in a 2D environment - a layout! That’s even possible since long time already, but glitchy. Btw. I’m disappointed that R8 section tools output only to model view, not layout. I frown upon having to toggle extra layers to hide 2D stuff somewhere next to my model. Just doesn’t belong there. Archicad and the likes do all this in such a clean and straightforward manner… also annotation scale. Just wo…

[Tom_P]

@rajaa

If I understand you right, you would like to have the drawing inserted as a “detail” in layout without showing in model space?

yes.

but:
I would love to see it as geometry in layout space.
not “nested” inside a detail. (and hazzle with layer-visibility)
use modelling-space for creating only.
use layout-space for documentation / drafting.
I disagree with the Idea that a scaling is the main characteristics wether something should be in which space.

maybe the concept of a clippingplan-view inside a detail fits better to my needs.

But maybe this is also a sign, that the full concept is not mature / fully thought out. Or/And has to many remnants from old concepts (sections, clippingplane, section drawing / clipping drawing, make2d,…the taxonomy / naming is unclear at some points, at least for a non-native-speaker like me)

Maybe the concept of “spaces” need some extension?
modelling–space
texture-space (uv-editor)
blockdefinition-space (block-edit)
drafting-space. (1:1 sections)
layout-space.(scaled prints)
Then a section would come alive in the drafting-Space and will be inserted (similar to a block) in the layoutspace…
just spreading ideas…

@rajaa

Hide the drawing layers in model space,

why to do it in this indirection.
why not directly place everything directly in layoutspace - with a correct scaling. adding a scaling to a clipping-drawing would totally make sense.

@rajaa

Is that how you envision it?

no - i would love not to use a detail.
I don t like the concept of having to assign connected / depended properties (layer-visibility) multiple times.
And I don t like the idea of having overlapping objects/ geometry (especially close to origin) in model-Space.

But maybe I also mist something in the new V8 concept of best practice / how to do drafting/documention.

thanks for having a look at this - kind regards -tom

[Eugen]

@Tom_P

why not directly place everything directly in layoutspace - with a correct scaling. adding a scaling to a clipping-drawing would totally make sense.

Absolutely.
Rhino still bitterly lags behind in this regard, despite many efforts.

In this post, I tried to convey the idea of a new 2D space between model and layout space, to adress the problem: where to put 2D extracts = Clipping Drawings of the 3D scene?
(However, the post was with regard to VisualArq’s ‘plan view’ and ‘secton view’ and how to export to DWG, but it boils down to the same thing).

• Put 2D extracts / ClippingDrawings in model space:
  you potentially clutter your scene, and thus have to mess with layer visibility to work around this. Gets complicated pretty quick. A totally uninteresting organizational effort has to be made. Not ideal.
• Putting 2D in layout space:
  – option 1: the 2D extract is seen through a detail view, which means the 2D stuff has to reside in model space again - same problem as before. Also, when putting annotations on top of a detail view, they can break all too easily when the model is changed.
  – option 2: the ClippingDrawing goes onto the layout (paper) directly, as some sort of entity that can be moved as a whole and has a scale parameter. That would be nice, but it doesn’t exist yet.
  Well, it does, with VisualArq’s “plan” and “section view” objects, which are blocks that can be refreshed, but they weren’t designed to be put in layout space. They push for a detail view-based workflow.
  I’m aware that ClippingDrawings can be moved by a command, but it would be much simpler for the user to move it simply like a block. I was disappointed about the way the Section tools were implemented in this regard.

Best solution: a dedicated new (boundary-less) 2D space that shows the resulting projection of a clipping plane (because these can be placed nice and free), with an update automatism, should the model change. Annotations, text and all other 2D stuff goes in there, too.
This 2D space could then be placed into layout space, and given a crop area and a scale.

That’s how Archicad or Revit work. Even better, the scene objects can be manipulated in this 2D space, as well as in 3D space (ok, that’s something I would not insist on having in Rhino).
Even more, the 2D projection engines of these applications are powerful enough to show not only section colors, but also colors of non-sectioned objects, as hatches.
And all of this 2D goodness can then be exported to DWG quite simply.

No, we are not there yet, by a long shot.