Can't successfully copy button from .rui to default

Experiment # 22b:

Opened (linked) an .rui wit various toolbars. Testing now the bidirectional COPYING of buttons between the .rui and default.

Try 1: using Ctrl+LMB to COPY (not link, which is RMB) a button from a toolbar that lives in the .rui library that is open into a toolbar that lives in default. On the surface that works fine. If I Shift+LMB to edit the copied button, the macros have been copied as well - or so it seems.

Now (holds breath) CLOSE the .rui to see what happens… Ahh, the button is still there - breathes a sigh of relief, then presses button. Joy short-lived, the image icon is still there but the button no longer does anything… Sigh of relief becomes just sigh…

Shift + LMB now shows this:

Closing the toolbar in default into which it was copied and re-opening shows that the button is no longer there at all. The image that hung around at first is a red herring (I believe this is a bug that has been reported - toolbars need to be closed and re-opened to update).

Just to complete the cycle open the .rui again. Funny, the last time I did this all the toolbars were closed. This time they all open - HUGE again. Yes, this huge:

Fortunately I saved a window layout with them correctly sized…

Once the .rui is open again, the button “copied” from the .rui to default is back and works again.

So, in conclusion, it is not currently possible to COPY a button from an .rui to default. It says COPY but in fact it is only a LINK.

So, I’m at an impasse here… If there isn’t a way to successfully copy a button from an .rui into the default library (and have it stay there after the .rui is closed), then I’m stuck re-making dozens and dozens of buttons one-by-one…

I created a youtrack item for this in the hopes it might get some attention…

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You are brave.

I still don’t understand the system:
What is stored in a rui file (library?).
What’s in a rhc file (container?).
I don’t know where the commands are stored, where the images are stored.
And how it all works together.

I also don’t know WHY I need to understand the system.

I have spent so many hours fiddling with toolbars without any real success.
I have no desire to do it anymore.

Well, not really. Just trying not to be left behind…

As far as I know only toolbars belonging to that library - macros, images etc. as well as info indicating whether the toolbars are visible or not. However it does not include where the toolbars actually show up on the screen when made visible, nor their size/arrangement - that info is stored elsewhere (Window Layouts).

Containers can contain toolbars and panels. I think this is literally what it’s name implies - a container - it probably only has references that point to which toolbars and panels it contains and maybe their positions within the container. But I can’t find where .rhc files are stored - all of the container stuff seems to be stored in .xml files. I did a search for *.rhc and nothing was found. So I have no idea how/when these files are actually created, Manage Containers seems to be able to import a definition, but I don’t see a function for exporting/saving one*. Nothing in the Help about .rhc either. Another of the great unexplained V8 UI mysteries.

*Edit - so I found how to export a container, it’s in the gearwheel menu of the container itself. It makes an .rhc file, but if you open it in notepad, it looks like just a special .xml file. I tested exporting a container with one toolbar and importing it into another Rhino V8 scheme and it appears to import all the info - the toolbar with buttons images etc. As that toolbar was in a separate .rui in the exporting scheme, it also created a new library for that toolbar when I imported it into the new scheme:

The library gets named with the name of the exporting library plus a UUID which I assume is the actual reference of the container itself.

Previously, that question had a single answer… “.rui”. Now unfortunately, it has multiple answers.

If the macro/button that lives in default, then it’s automatically stored there (no access). If you modify or add any buttons to toolbars that reside in default, that info (only the modifications you made) is stored in your settings.xml file.

If the macro/button lives in a linked .rui, that info is stored directly in the .rui (as far as I know)

I’m not sure there is a complete and clear picture of that.

Well, as a reseller (like you and me) we’re somehow going to need to be able to explain this stuff to clients. Right now that’s my main concern, considering what is scheduled to happen tomorrow.

Exactly what I feel as well.
I gave all to find out:

I meant to say that I don’t want to know everything about the internal logic of the system.
My expectation is a well working system that doesn’t need to be explained.

Not so easy when I don’t know how to explain it to myself.
A little support from the system creators would help.
Shouldn’t be a problem if the system is considered as a well working solution.