Can We Make it So Left-Right selection selects objects inside groups?


I sometimes find myself selecting objects with Left to Right over and over wondering why they are not being selected just to find out they are in a group. I need to ungroup, move and regroup.

Can we make it so that Left-Rigth selection automatically selects objects within groups if these are entirely inside the selection pane?

Does somebody have any objection to that?


Hi Shynn - if you set this to False, you can select whole objects in groups with Ctrl-Shift.

Default is only to grab the sub objects. There is someplace else in the UI to set this, I am just spacing out on where it is at the moment…


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Hmm, thanks for the workaround Pascal

It does work, but it disables useful functionality when selecting sub objects, for example, all bottom faces of boxes from Front view. Not sure if worth toggling on and off all the time though…

I still feel selection could be smarter in identifying when you are trying to select single objects within a group. This toggle ignores the information of whether the objects are grouped or not. Just thinking in terms of programming it… If Group = True then treat Left to Right selection as if objects were ungroupped.

Right now if you don’t draw a big enough box to select the entire group nothings gets selected… between nothing and selecting single objects inside groups I think the latter would be a nice addition no?

Hi Shynn - honestly, I am a little leery of this - I need to think on it more but it seems to be it could open up scope for some pretty serious errors - for example, if a group of objects partially overlaps another group, a window selection could get all of one group and parts of another. I do see that needing to fully window a group is exactly the same, in that specific context, as not grouping at all (disregarding parts of the group that may be hidden for now, that is another ball of wax) and that it could be nice to have more flexibility, but it makes me nervous - the current behavior is somewhat of a necessity it seems to me, to guard against the example I gave…


I understand. But, isn’t the scenario of having overlapping geometry/groups much less likely than the common usage? Also, right now CTRL+Shift Select already selects sub objects from multiple groups, and ticking the option to False as you suggested likewise selects single objects from multiple groups as well.

It would only be natural for Left-Right selection to select objects from multiple groups (in the exceptional situation you have overlapping groups to the point that completely selecting one single object from one will also select one single object from the other) and just have the user be careful of that.

Of course this is something that would need to be properly evaluated by days of actual testing and writing reports, not arguing over it here.

But, to determine if it’s even worth looking into…the point of grouping is to treat multiple objects as one top-level “object” and the point of a left-right drag is to have to fully select top level “objects,” so what you’re proposing is to break that logic and create a hidden functionality that no one is likely to even know exists until they move some sub-object they did not intend, and indeed to make it impossible to not select grouped sub-objects with a window selection, complicating one of the most basic core things in the program, and defeating the purpose of grouping. But maybe it can be mitigated by trying to have Rhino guess what you’re “actually” intending to do?" That’s the worst part. This sounds like a non-starter.

Consistency trumps pretty much anything, it is not worth breaking to save a few clicks here and there.


The fact that you decided to decorate your stance with baseless suppositions such as ‘hidden functionality’ ‘no one will even know exists’ ‘move some sub object they did not intend’ makes it look even weaker…

The first thing to have in mind is that window selection ≠ cross selection.

You talk about logic, okay. I think we can agree that there is no logic in window selecting a group of objects that you already grouped right? That’s why you grouped it.

Pascal put it very eloquently:

So, basically when it comes to groups, window selection is useless or at least not adding anything beneficial to the user. All I am suggesting it to add this extra functionality that lets you actually use window selection (no currently widely used when dealing with groups) to select sub objects inside groups.

I myself actually first expected it so… was trying to window select an object, but the selection was not working… I made sure the window was big enough and yet nothing… until I realized I was dealing with a group. So in a way, it is even counter intuitive, at least for me… because I was baffled at the fact that window selection was not working when the window was clearly big enough to select that object. And the file was not mine, so I hadn’t made that group!

I never use groups to not window select other objects…That is a really far fetched way to look at groups functionality. I mean if that is the reason you do groups you might just try hiding or locking… The main reason I use groups, and I believe most people also, is as a type of save selection. And the second top reason is because I really want all those objects to remain together.

How is having a way of selecting entire sub objects inside a group defeating the purpose of grouping? It actually makes groups more flexible and easily editable. There is not downside for something that is not being used! (windowed selection).

Seriously though, you just state but don’t explain. How would being able to window select a sub-object defeat the purpose of grouping? You are not going to window select the entire group anyways! Because it is already a group! If anything THAT defeats the purpose of grouping as Pascal said.

That’s a terrible argument, I am not even going to try count the number of contradictions and logic breaking decisions in Rhino. And its not even that Rhino has something wrong, it is simply that software is extremely complex and exceptions are everywhere, for a good reason! But even this one would not be one of those logic breaking exceptions… It is even more intuitive than not.

But if you want to add a hotkey for it such as CTRL+SHIFT let’s say that CTRL+ALT + window selection lets you select a single object of a group… that’s totally fine too.

Edit: Also there is currently no way to select multiple single objects inside a group. (technically you can with CTRL+SHIFT Clicking each one of the individually, which is extremely cumbersome as you also get the option to select sub objects such as edges, faces, etc. What’s wrong with adding a better way to do this?

The problem is, the very, very likely, even certain, errors that would occur in situations like the one I described with overlapping groups make a change like this impossible -that overlapping groups may be less common than non-overlapping groups is not really a factor here - if it can happen in normal usage of the program, it can be a disaster for the user. Needing to remember not to window in some circumstances … well, you see, I’m sure - we’d be pilloried.


Like I said, Ctrl + Shift already selects from multiple groups…

Whats the difference with, say, Ctrl+Alt selecting whole objects from multiple groups??

Also its not like the user does not have visual feedback. If he selects something he does not want to move he will know and deselect.

I think you are exaggerating a bit, pretty much like arguing to not have a window selection at all because you might select something you don’t want to select :rofl:

In fact, if you have two overlapped groups and you window select, you might select both, but you only want one! Disaster! So I guess we should delete window selection.

Numbers and statistics still matter.

Furthermore, the workaround you suggested already works by selecting whole objects from 2 different groups… I am just asking to make it available without having to toggle on and off a boolean everytime.

Hi Shynn - here is a schematic of the case that is most obvious to me-

It would not be possible to select all three red or green or blue groups with a window - grouping would not protect the other sets from selection. This simply would not fly - we’d quite rightly be burned at the stake for messing up a perfectly useful workflow.



That’s a very specific situation. It does not address the points I brought up. But I will go with it:

-You can always select and deselect what you don’t need.
-You can lock all but what you need.
-You can select by color.
-You can click 3 times and select 3 red groups.
-You can cross select through the middle or the sides to get any 3 column of groups you want.

Groups were never meant to protect other objects from being selected. That is not why one uses groups. That is not a ‘perfectly useful workflow’… no one uses this!

One hardly uses window selection to entirely select groups, exactly because they are groups, so just cross selecting a tiny bit of it will automatically select the entire group. Literally the whole point of groups is to stop using window selections and be able to click to select, as theoretically the number of groups in your file will be minute compared to the number of objects. It makes no sense to have 1000 groups.

This is why numbers are important! You have to weight in the statistical occurrence of wanting to edit a group by selecting/moving single objects inside of it against having these kind of ultra specific situations. Add to it the confusion of window selection not working when the object is part of a bigger group and the times you want to select multiple single objects inside a group with a window selection…

I guess I will just painfully keep making window selections around objects over and over to no avail until I realize some person who is not me made a group with an object in coordinates 14242, 41233 and so I will never be able to window select my object…

Or I will keep ungrouping and regrouping my objects because there is no efficient way to select whole objects inside a group rather than ctrl shift clicking one by one…

Seriously Pascal, what is the problem of adding an additional shortcut such as CTRL SHIFT for whole objects instead of for sub-objects???