This
is NOT good!
I put the annotations on top of the detail in layout space, then entered the detail, changed the display mode, left the detail, and boom!, annotations loose their associativity and shift around randomly.
This bug is VERY unprofessional. Hoping for a fix.
VA 2.13.1.17123
Rhino 7.31.23166.15001
Thanks!
Hi @Eugen, this issue seems very similar, or at least to be related to a Rhino issue you reported some time ago: Dimension Shift With Detail Window Activation/Deactivation - #19 by Eugen
We will revise it back just in case VisualARQ has something to do with it and we can help to fix it.
As mentioned in the other Topic, it looks like if you disable the INT osnap, the problem doesnât occur.
Ok, thanks! Will check if this is rhino related, or VA.
Going back to AutoCAD, one reason I never annotated in Layout Spaces (even though itâs way better in many ways) was because too many random things would occur. It was super convenient of course.
Rhino is a little different: You canât just start plopping 2D annotations into a 3D model (well you can and you canât, but eventually youâll run into a situation where itâs not practical).
This is why I like VAâs live âMake2dâ sections⌠You just have to be able to tuck them away somewhere in model space. For what I work on this typically isnât a problem but that doesnât apply to everyone. I was using the plan/section views to annotate and then using two detail views stacked together (a pain but maybe I could automate it somehow) .
Since our company now went deep down the Archicad rabbithole, I finally learned what a reliable and feature rich architectural planning software can and should do. Gives me no joy to say, but itâs just miles and miles ahead of the Rhino/VA combo.
Teamwork(!). Views that remember all their display settings parametrically and can be placed on layouts. Layout sheets where everything placed on it, including views, works with draw order (try that with Rhino detailsâŚ). Graphical overrides. All the scheduling and BIM features you can wish for, certified by buildingsmart.org. Access to tons of manufacturer BIM objects. Publishing sets supporting PDF, DWG, IFC. A huge library of all the stuff you need on a daily basis. A strong vector engine, with vector shadows. One of my favorites: those parametric 2d extractions of a 3d view, where all the 2d elements still represent the original objects and give access to their property page. Stability. Even Enscape felt better integrated than in Rhino!
Etc.
Still, there are a few nasty downsides of course. Cost. Working in 3d feels (very) slow compared to Rhino. Morphs, the mesh (terrain) tool and others are clunky. Hence the live connection to Grasshopper (which lacks materials, btw.).
So, am I a fan of Archicad? For some strange reason, itâs a boring program. And itâs age old. So I keep coming back to Rhino/VA, where the nerds are. I want to see that thing strive!
But then I do this little floorplan fixup for a friend, and boom! again it shows that thereâs still no foolproof way to annotate the bloody thing⌠for real??
I want to annotate in a 2d environment, because thatâs where 2d stuff belongs. (I wouldnât mind if the annotations go on top of a detail, or onto a vaPlanView sitting in a layout, as long as it works).
Looks like the only working way is doing this in model space. Thatâs just so oldschoolâŚ
Whereâs VA 3, guys??
Are you asking out of curiosity or does it not work? Iâm asking because if it doesnât it would/could trash my workflow.
Render engine integration felt not great to me in Rhino. But to be honest itâs the only program Iâve ever really tried to render anything with.
Oldschool isnât so bad, especially on smaller simpler projects. Another user asked me why I was doing it that way. At the time I had forgotten, but there are some small advantages. One example is that there are annotations that are very static, like grid lines for example: they have to remain in the same relative place. Opposed to things like leaders and tags that can move around, so long as they are able to reference the same object. I like being able to annotate in the presence of all other objects.
Annotating in Model Space also avoided surprises. And in the case of working on a â2Dâ model, you had immediate access to all accompanying dimensions. In Rhino/Varq that isnât quite the case, but as we speak Iâm thinking of ways to bridge that gap. Layers in Rhino are actually very versatile, so I might be able to do something with CPlanes and switching layers on/off.
Revit does this in an okay way⌠kind of⌠But I found that if I had a good workflow for the drawings I was working on, I could create my layouts faster in AutoCAD than in Revit. Creating sheets for Site Instructions was significantly more cumbersome in Revit verses AutoCAD.
I hope they take their time, get everything working as it should be. I think it will be good!
It doesnât work. Details do not partake in draw order. Neither do surfaces.
However, they should, and in a 2d space, this makes perfect sense, and is a necessity for decent layouting.
Draw order is kind of the z-coordinate in a layout/paper space.
I did a quick test by no means exhaustive. There is some sort of draw order. The catch is that itâs not 100% reliable or predictable. It almost works. Thereâs so much stuff that almost works and would be amazing if it just worked.
I have 3 details overlaid. One is just some Make2D linework off to the side, the other two are mock plan views.
I printed it 3 times. 2 out of 3 prints maintained the draw order. Iâm having trouble getting the linework to disappear behind the âupperâ view.
The annotations seem to consistently adhere to their set draw order.
Layout Test.3dm (303.9 KB)
I want to figure out something that works all the time, automate the process somehow and just stick with it. The layering of Details/Viewports/Views comes from Sketchup; it allows you to get the best of both worlds⌠or 3 or 4 worlds⌠but itâs a bit of a pain to set up (but can probably be automated).
From the docs:
âDraw order defines how coincidental or overlapping objects are displayed.
Currently it supports hatches, curves, points, annotation (all forms of text other than dots), and details.â
So, I stand corrected. Details are supported, which is good. Layouts seem to print the draw-ordered details correctly.
Catch: when selecting a detail, it is always displayed on top, even if it prints differently. Thatâs confusing when editing a layout, and Iâd consider it a bug.
Simple test with a few boxes:
Same in R7 and R8 WIP.
Only partially 
. The draw order isnât staying put when I print. In the first image my âlineworkâ has been pushed to the back and appears correctly in the layout:
But in print preview/printed:
Note the dotted line. It also only does this with vector output (it seems to work fine with raster output but I need vector output), that is, it wonât hide the line(s) behind the surface. Something I can probably work around but stillâŚ
