A complete UI overhaul of Rhino would be a much welcomed move

rhino
ui
rhinoformac
rhino-for-windows

(IVELIN PEYCHEV) #104

I use a hybrid tabs+toolbars, simply because it is too much work re-instating what was pre-Rhino5. Every time I install the software.

The work with the tabs is counter-intuitive for me. I would’ve liked tabs to be just a way to arrange your own workspace. Adding toolbar into the tabs to NOT copy your custom tab in the default tab configuration, but rather instantiate it. Current situation it copies the custom toolbar and so if you edit it, Rhino does not reflect the changes


#105

What I had in mind you can just edit the main Rhino 5 default UI toolbar that has tabs by getting rid of them/dragging them out can closing the tabbed toolbars. Then save the *.rui file and you can reuse it anywhere as a default. No need to import and pre-V5 stuff.


#106

Exactly!!! This is the absolute truth :grinning: Thank you for writing this, so I didn’t have to…
The changing interface is one reason I don’t like the tabs in the Windows interface - the sidebar is changing all the time.

Philip


#107

This is also a very valid argument - especially for us older people :wink:

Philip


#108

Monochromatic would not mean, all icons had to have the same colours.


(Toshe Andonov) #109

Well “old-timers”, sorry to break the news, but the future is not yours. :grin:

Joking aside - please read the whole thread, if you are so eager to dismiss the proposition.
We were already discussing how the behavior doesn’t need to change dramatically, but improve.
Changes are necessary, and you’d be fullish not to acknowledge that.

“Monochromatic” has many interpretations, and people are doing some amazing work implementing “flat design”. It doesn’t need to be dull, confusing and boring.
Look around. It’s 2018.

It’s still beyond me, how people limit themselves into their comfort zone, with what they know already.
I know… I know… it’s cozy and tempting but broaden your horizons.

Whatever happens, McNeel need to think this through and produce the best possible solution that will complement the Rhino general workflow.
Maybe they can hold a contest for the community and gather different concepts. Hmmm… Imagine that.


(Tom) #110

I‘m 32, don‘t know if this is old to you. Best designers,engineers and architects I know are all way above their 40‘s. Its just quite often that young people evaluate themselves differently. I guess thats something which gets better day by day. I for myself wish that people in 2018 would remember more values like respect and humility.


(Ufuk Bircan Özkan) #111

So please read the following sentence where you quoted :wink:
We were comparing it with PS there.


#112

:+1:

Philip


(Tim Stark) #113

Since this thread started, I always wondered why there is so much dislike to the idea of a UI rework. In my opinion, new UI shouldn‘t mean everyone has to use it. As long there‘s the option to switch between old and new, I think it would be an improvement.
As @ivelin.peychev already said, I personally wish to change the icon color.


(Toshe Andonov) #114

And I’d wish that people are not as sensitive and have a better sense of humor.
But hey, you shouldn’t listen to me. I’m just an asshole apparently.


Back on topic - Again, my point was that there are many different iterations of design styles. It’s not just the monochromatic look in Photoshop, or Blender, or Autocad, or whatever… There are others, in different industries, and they can be done well.
I’m saying that the argument - “I just don’t want Rhino to change; I can’t handle adapting to a new UI; etc.”… it’s not good enough. That’s not even an argument to be more precise.
If you can’t see the drawbacks that Rhino’s UI has, then you haven’t looked around.

A [G]UI change should be welcomed. There are many aspects where Rhino can accelerate and complement the magnificent functionality it has.

And also, you are trusting McNeel with making the software tool that you need, but you don’t trust them that they are smart enough to pull a good UI change?!


(Tom) #115

Nobody says this. Many user just say that what’s good or what’s not good is highly subjective. Some say monochromatic icons would be good, other says please no. Some say make the UI intelligent, other say you don’t need that at all, since they hardly do icon clicking. But arguing that people, who don’t see the need for a drastic change are automatically old or narrow-minded is offensive. I think people using CAD for years are not narrow-minded at all. Usually its the opposite.

And no, I don’t think you are an asshole. I even think its a valid concern you are raising. I also said that I welcome a GUI overwork, its just that I doubt that’s its that bad and needs a drastic change.


(Toshe Andonov) #116

Yes they do. Many did and I’m not planning on going back and quoting everyone.
And having a Windows Forms-based paneling is just bad. It’s old and should be done better.

Talking about which design approach to take, well, that’s subjective, and I wouldn’t argue there. I’ll say ‘Go flat. It’s sharper, quieter and better’, but someone will say ‘No. Go full 3D. Pop everything out, make it scream’.

I would only like for us to agree that Rhino’s UI is old and rusty, and needs a change, and someone should look into that.

And for the fifth time - The behavior of the UI doesn’t need to change drastically. Rhino’s UI behaviour has some very good ideas behind it and I like it. If it was unusable to me, I wouldn’t use Rhino.
But the skin and the code behind it should be modernized.

I never said people are “narrow-minded”. Please don’t take my sentences out of context.
I said:

… talking about how different software packages are implementing ‘monochromatic’ design, because today UI designers are doing some amazing things. They are out there, you just need to look around, and appreciate the good work they are doing.

As someone said before - Building a new UI is not just “slapping-on” a new skin. It needs to be done through a scientific approach. Reviewing user data, and taking into consideration the wishes and needs of those users.
The design and the overall look is just a bi-product of it all.

How far are McNeel ready to take this, it’s up to them. Will it be just a revamped design over their existing GUI, or really go into improving some aspects of the behavior of their UI, I don’t know.
I would encourage them to go full-blown “Blender 2.8”, and rethink how different people use Rhino. But that’s just me.

In the end, something needs to be done. Rhino is lacking behind and it might hurt the users and the functionality of the software itself in the long run.


(Nathan 'jesterKing' Letwory) #117

I checked out Blender 2.8 experimental build last night. I must say that it shows some serious thought has gone into creating and supporting different workflows. Compared to 2.5x-2.7x yet another huge step forward.

I think we can look at how different workflows are supported and see if we can learn from those, apply to Rhino.


(IVELIN PEYCHEV) #119

(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged)


#120

Personally, I found this comment offensive.
Never met TomTom, I’m sure he is a nice guy.


(IVELIN PEYCHEV) #121

I haven’t used Blender recently, but I remember them trying to fit mouse buttons and user interaction to match that of different software. This is good idea. But I think difficult to reach with Rhino. Maybe just adding reordering of panels/toolbars/tabs will do, but if you try to change the mouse behavior this will be a nightmare.

(side note: I will hate to see you implementing the horrific mouse control of CATIA with all that hold-one-button-click the other to rotate, this is hell, work like this for hours then open a PDF and try to left+right click to zoom :smiley: :laughing:)


#124

I haven’t used Rhino on a daily basis in nearly fifteen years. Bought my first computer 2 years before the PC came out. My first Cad program was Generic Cadd, then Visual Cadd the Windows version, followed by Rhino, AutoCad, Solid Edge, and currently SolidWorks.

So I remember Lotus 123 and WordPerfect too. 123 was one of the first adopters of icons and I use to use a printed ad they ran with icons all the way around the page as a test. I never found anyone that could identify more than about 30% of them. WordPerfect was a nearly perfect interface in many ways. On startup you had a completely blank screen with a blinking cursor in the upper left corner. All commands were on function key combinations which worked well but was difficult to master.

Now Generic Cadd used two key mnemonic combinations and no enter key. CO, MO, C2, C3, ST, RO, TX, LD, AD, LE, and so on. I’d bet that nearly everyone here can guess what those commands did, and it turns out that just 28 commands like that and you could really bang out the drawings. To this day I use those same shortcuts in AutoCad, Rhino, and SolidWorks.

I hide nearly all the toolbars and icons to give the biggest possible workspace. I hate the word “Intuitive”. Nothing is really intuitive, it is all connected to your environment. If you grew up in a place where there were no knobs to turn you would not think to turn a knob when you first see it. I prefer “Discoverable” If an icon or keystroke is pressed it should lead you to what it does and how it works.

Finally about 15 years ago I posted a comment on the Rhino user group that the perfect user interface is the one you don’t notice. I think that is still true today.


Rhino has confusing UI! Toolbars need reorganization!
#125

So next stop is the nursing home then?

Just fooling…sage insight, seriously.

However, the youngins need their dark modes and eye candy, lest they begin to twitch.


#126

the new Dark Mode in Mojave OSX looking quite nice over on the Mac V6 WIP, hats off to McNeel for the work in utilising this :smile: