A complete UI overhaul of Rhino would be a much welcomed move

Well, you and Philip clearly have very bad taste! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

I feel like this thread is in the fast lane of ridiculizing graphic design and GUI-related stuff.
Some of us work in fields where we can’t avoid dealing with the design decisions made by others and I know it can be frustrating, especially if we feel that the reasoning behind those decisions is not very thoughtful. Or at least live in the areas exposed to those decisions quite a lot.
Since we are sticked to the monitors for long hours, I hope that in this virtual world of software, everyone will easily find peace by having their custom UI colors, toolbar layout, etc…

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And if the icons were shown in the menu as well.

I really hope most of McNeel does not think the way you do… it’s in their best interest no to. Specially when you have users picking up or rejecting software based on interface.

You see, the GUI in a software is the first thing anyone sees, it’s like the cover of a book. And everyone judges a book by its cover. Or even, they might not, but still don’t like working in an ugly workspace.

This basically means your first point is totally backwards.

Totally generic and ironically not even the case when it comes to GUI. I would argue form is actually more important than function when it comes to GUI.

A GUI can define an entire piece of software. We actually remember most of them by just that, the GUI, and nostalgically look back on those icons we once thought OK and could now not stand. Brand logo evolution is a good example of this. Times change, things change, was was right some time ago is no longer.

Also, function in GUI does not have a major role. You don’t need to know instantly where everything is. We have been through this: the same way you need to study a piece of software, watch tutorials, read documentation, read commands, search for a tools lists, etc. it’s the same with the interface.

You need to study things and from daily use you will start to remember and understand. What happens technically also happens graphically.

If anything, aesthetics is more important than function when it comes to GUI.

Also, from a functional stand point. Rhino logos suck.

How is this split? Why the blue? Why the triangle?

You are telling me that is more clear than this?
Splt-01

A yellow pyramid for History?? Would have never guessed it… What is this a joke? Like I said. 5-year olds…

You think? :rofl:

At least a little self criticism… Don’t mind the entire thread and many others of people asking for GUI updates.

No. I stated all my reasons and arguments but you chose to ignore them and the proceed to replace it with “they are ugly”. That’s just poor debating in the least. Disrespectful at most.

Right, Photoshop, one of the most successful and popular software out there and it has the worst GUI. Logically it does not even make sense? Think about it… the best of the best is actually the worst?

You seem to think Rhino has got it right and everyone else wrong!
I really hope McNeel does not have this mindset towards its GUI.

Honestly you trying to defend the current GUI from a graphical design point of view borders the ridicule. Even when you have got people showing you the icons are as old as Rhino 3.0. Defending that is just blunt stubbornness.

This should be a no brainer, well said.

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Very confusing for trim, perfect for mirror command :-).

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I am not the first person to say Rhino GUI is great, far from it. There are tons of places that need more consistency and such. It goes beyond icons. But I am saying that for me the (over)-simplification in icons many times does not improve usability, especially if it makes everything too uniform. I personally agree the icons could use a rethink, be made more consistent. In Rhino as well there are many icons I have trouble understanding, each time I see them. But I also say that I prefer the colourful icons in Rhino over monochrome icons, because it makes it for me easier to find things.

Again, to me monochrome icons in a uniform GUI are a failed design decision in most cases I have encountered.

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At least when it comes to Photoshop which is a graphics editor, there should be monochromatic icons because colors of the neighboring objects affect how we perceive other colors. So you don’t want to see those icons. There is also only a small number of them, so you can find them with ease anyway or use only key shortcuts.

People who value more vivid icons do want icons to be visible all the time and their visibility doesn’t interfere with the design they are making.

I would say that color of the brush handle should be different for someone who is painting pictures (shouldn’t be too visible and interfere with the paint or picture colors) and different for someone who is doing a flat renovation (should be visible to easily find it in the renovation mess).

Even with technical tasks, I believe some people would want to see only e.g. 5 different colors of the lines they are working with, and have very toned UI.
Other people, who maybe are using more tools, and need quick access to the bigger number of them, would want easily accessible buttons. The more they don’t fit together, the easier they are to spot. But can this be irritating for others, and can it look messy - yes.

Personally, I don’t like monochromatic UIs, current Rhino icons might be a little problem, but I don’t think the discussion about RHUI should be focused on that aspect.


There are of course a bunch of icons that are different for no reason… so if everything is too different from each other, then it might lack category guiding. So you can’t make preliminary choices.

These I think are not eye-pleasing nor consistent in providing information. The car becomes DSLR camera, another DSLR camera is doing things with viewports and viewports have their symbols already (but not used in this case).
So if there is a camera and surface in “look at surface” then there should be a camera and viewport in “capture viewport to file”.
Anyway, too many cameras.

While the bear is cool, this collection doesn’t fit together very nicely. (To some I had doubts and had to check what are they doing).
image


But you know what’s cool?
Rhino evidently grows and it has those not matching icons added over time. It is very hard to design a good system without knowing what new function could be added in the future and 1. keep everything matching logically all the time 2. do not make changes to the previous icons when the new comes.

When you are making a collection out of 4 icons, and you design them with some logic to it, then you add 3 more icons and you must follow this logic.
If you had to design 7 icons in one batch this logic might be different. You can slightly redesign, update the whole collection, but it is a lot of work and for sure there will be some users hesitant to any changes to the icons they know for dozen years.

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It seems you confused the Rhino icon Split for the Trim icon. Don’t worry, they do give to confusion.

Which is which, no one knowns…

That’s just a classic strawman fallacy.

No one is talking about monochrome. None of the first examples I mentioned are monochrome. Nor is Cinema4D, nor Blender.

All I said is it needs a complete redesign. Current state is not ok. I don’t care about colors or not. You do.

yet you posted two monochrome icons you created for this thread…

I was trying to provide an argument why I think monochromatic is not necessarily right - as part of designing icons. In way of saying: if and when icons get redesigned, do take note of that. Sure, there are many more aspects to what will make a good icon set. And you are right, I feel strongly about colors in icons since to me it is an important aspect of the whole design. You say you don’t care about that, and that if fine.

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The icon comparison you showed above is an undisputed win of Rhino’s icons over the ones from the other software. Why? Because the majority Rhino’s icons don’t need a text next to them to make it clear what exactly they do! Nearly half of the icons of the other program in your example are difficult or impossible to guess what’s their purpose. I don’t try to defend the graphics designers of Rhino, it’s just my honest opinion as a person who used to work on multiple software over the years, and also does some icons as a hobby. Rhino’s easy-to-understand icons were the primary reason why I learned Rhino nearly two decades ago, despite the fact that I had zero understanding of English and YouTube was non-existent at the time.

I have seen plenty of bad work by various “professional” graphics designers (and many other designers in many other fields), so it does not matter how many of them would agree with my opinion or not. :slight_smile:
What matter is, whether Rhino’s icons are easy to understand and easy to remember. The answer is YES to both.

There are several icons in Rhino 7 that I definitely don’t like and I think they should be swapped for a better version, but the majority of the classic Rhino icons are spot on!

It does, its called consensus.

That’s where you are wrong:

Easy to understand? Check
Easy to remember? Check
Ugly? Check
No color code? Check
No correlation to other icons? Check
Too complex to even show the screws of the floppy disk? Check

And this is the most easy icon to make.
All other icons are impossible to guess and remember.

What the actual … are these? That’s an icon?!

Smash cube? Scale 1D? Smooth edges? Smooth Surface? Hammer something?

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I think that the graphics designer who create these icons did a spectacular job, because some of them also express a great sense of humour! What other CAD program has a man beating a box with a hammer? Obviously, he wants to modify the box and make it look in a different way.
Also, saving a huge 2 GB file into an ancient floppy disc? :slight_smile: I would never want a replacement icon with a laser disc or a flash memory for the “Save” command, despite these being more realistic in the modern day.
Tell me another CAD program that has a cat ran over by a car! that’s my favourite Rhino icon ever!

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If we wanted beautiful icons, we should look at cads like Solidthinking or Thinkdesign.
Those of Catia v5 and Solidworks are ugly.

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Hammer time.

The only sensible exit out of this pickle is icon packs…

If i had 100 wishes granted from the rhino devs, prettier icons certainly wouldnt make the cut. There is like a bazillion things id want more.

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Yep!
I rarely use icons, exceptions being plugin toolbars. Command names, aliases and keyshorts are the way to go, and the auto-complete dropdown menu in the command line is worth it’s weight in platinum.

Since the headline of this thread is ‘UI’, this includes so much more than what meets the eye icon-wise. We could for a start distinguish between what’s happening inside the viewports, and outside of it, because both are part of the UI.
Let’s talk about everything not viewports. Like how come the panel/toolbar layout still breaks down every now and then?
Or, consistency across all panels that list something. Layer panel, Layer States, Named Views etc… Why do the all work a little bit different, like in some the entries can be moved with drag&drop, and in others those stupid tiny arrows in the header toolbar has to be used? Why do up&down arrows work in some (Layers), not in others (Layer States)?
Or, why do some panels somehow feel sluggish and wobbly, even on fast machines? The Render panel for example. There’s some white flickering going on in the ‘Rhino Render Advanced Setting’ section when scrolling. Same in the PBR shader’s section ‘Detailed Settings’. Everywhere where this new border with the rounded corners occurs.
image

And much more. That’s why I agree on some overhaul of the UI, less because of icon colors.

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I am not talking about not using a floppy disk. C4D still uses one too.

vs

Notice the difference.

No screws. No highlights or shadows. Straight, simplified lines.
It also goes in harmony with all the interface which uses gray and orange. Tell me again, where is that rotten green used elsewhere in the Rhino interface?

The icon is for rebuild surface. So yeah, not a box, and not exactly modifying its shape (like you would with a hammer).

Besides this not being an actual argument, condensing a tool name and description into an icon is challenging enough to think about adding humor… Also, borrowing @nathanletwory’s words, I don’t want a Rorschach test on each icon… nor do I want a joke on each of them.

Thank you for pointing out that this is actually green. I’m colour blind and for nearly two decades I always thought that the “Save” icon is red, wow. :rofl: No problem for me, because it’s red for me. For those with normal vision who see the icon in green, there is a simple explanation. Green colour is typically related to something that is saved, like saving the nature or saving the planet. So, green floppy disc is like saving a file.

By the way, everybody could draw their own icon or use different colour for the existing icons. This is yet another great feature of Rhino! :sunglasses:

As for the icon for the “Rebuild surface”, I have to correct myself, because the icon shows a proper surface instead of a box. So, yes, it’s appropriate in that regard. Not to mention that the presence of a human is a clear indication that this is a specific and important tool that must not be mistaken with the basic modeling tools, because it basically changes the structure of the surface. What’s the most simple and effective way to change a structure? By using a hammer!

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